General chat episode 15

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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by Teasle11 on Fri 22 May - 9:30:35

I've watched this last episode a few times now and I enjoy it more each time, as I can concentrate on all the details I missed first time whilst watching through a blanket. An incredible piece of TV that was done exceptionally well by all concerned. No where in the book was it crucial to the plot that there was snow and I understand why they left out the wolf. I do wish they had shown Claire armed with her knife and using it as she searched for Jamie, as that did undermine her in my view, but she still came over as brave and strong. My favourite and most heartbreaking scene was when he said "I loveyou, mo nigh........." and smiled at her. Tear up every time I see that bit as it's such a sad goodbye from someone who believes they are about to die and will never see that person again. Hopefully, Emmys all round for Outlander this season
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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by glenys on Fri 22 May - 19:20:30

Just loved episode 15.  Brilliant acting by everyone.  Waiting for this weekend to see #16.  I wonder if the TV series will end the same as in the book in France.  Noticed how the British soldiers uniforms at the hangings were rather dirty(like they would have been)  - not perfectly white as one used to see in the movies a few years ago. Will buy the DVD at Amazon as soon as it is available.
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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by ayrlassie on Sat 23 May - 0:41:30

Dear glenys,

I loved it too!  Due to a holiday in the U.S. episode 16 won't be aired until May 30th.  Our erstwhile admin hero (logo1960) Lorraine will be vacationing in Scotland and we thought that we would be denied viewing it until her return BUT she has informed us that she will indeed be surreptitiously be taking her 'naughty computer' with her in order to download the finale! She did a similar thing last Fall while on vacation.  We bow down to her!

She is our heroine
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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by karelynnCDN on Sat 23 May - 14:36:09

I rewatched the episode and then felt I had to re read this part in the book. Really marvellous how it was filmed, just brilliant.

I only missed one line - in the book when Claire reluctantly takes her leave of Jamie, he whispers in her ear, "He (Randall) will let you go because he thinks you are helpless. I know you are not."

I always thought that line showed how much Jamie appreciated and respected Claire but also how well he knew her, that she would go if she believed it to be the only way to help him. I am sure he did not truly hope he could be rescued.

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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by DIANE4564 on Sun 24 May - 6:28:27

I found it hard but compulsive to watch, superbly acted by all three.
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Anticipation

Post by jambon911 on Mon 25 May - 1:14:40

and now... I can,t wait to see episode 16!!!!

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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by soniaG on Tue 26 May - 21:45:56

Dear all,
dear Ayrlassie, Aikman Lass, Lochness, Shagur and Misty Blue,

I have now seen this episode twice. One time with some things left out and a second time without audio to write down all my impressions.

And so far I have read all comments here and I will say some things to it and also post some of my impressions or questions/thoughts .. Wink!

Not now .. but before episode 16 is ready to be aired!

So, til then .. Wink


P.S. Dear Lochness, I am glad you made it savely to China and hope everything is going according your plans! Good to see you have access from China to our forum here .. ! Waving to you .. please greet China for me .. I´ve never been there and I don´t think I will be going there in this lifetime .. Wink
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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by Misty Blue on Tue 26 May - 22:21:32

Dear Sonia

As always we will look forward to reading your valued comments & thoughts regarding Episode 15, when you your ready to post them.
This Episode I have only wanted to watch twice, once with my two dear friends, who share my joy of the Outlander Series, & once by myself, another day. It just proves the power of the performances, to have that fearful hold on an audience. And perhaps, I just want to clear some of the emotional debris from inside my head, after seeing Wentworth Prison, in preparation for Episode 16.
I also need to catch up with some of your other posts, that I've spotted elsewhere. I have been busy, though I plan to rectify that, & soon! But that will need to be discussed within those threads. flower
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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by soniaG on Wed 27 May - 20:17:37

Dear Misty Blue,

thank you very much for all what you have said to me! Well, let me see if I could give some new input! Wink

------------------------

My impressions from episode 15:


Dear all,

it is said enough about the outstanding performance of all main characters in this episode .. about the terrific emotional display of all parties involved and how some of you were very deeply touched or horrofied due to the good performance.

What we haven´t discussed almost at all are  some questions of the content! For example .. how the writer of this episode came up with all things we see  happening between Jamie and Black Jack Randall before Claire arrives.

In the book we don´t see this .. because we are travelling with Claire!

So .. but I start at the beginning:

I was less shocked from all these scenes than I would have expect beforehand. Like you - dear Lochness - I was almost detached or perhaps really so curious to see how far Sam and Tobias are going to go regarding all the male-to-male interactions. How much of touching .. kissing and so on we would see .. how daring they both might be .. and I wasn´t disappointed .. Wink

I was suddenly very very curious and almost greedy (if I may confess and say so) to see those two great men and actors getting in touch with each other ..

Somehow the hanging scenes I had to skip at the first time watching. Seeing someone struggle for his life with a rope around his neck .. this was way too much and strangely too realistic for me.

The rest I did see en detail and wasn´t quite so shocked as I had feared. Very strange indeed! I really had to accept that I almost - I am sorry to say - did enjoy to see how Black Jack Randall is taking Jamie apart ..  (I do hope I don´t offend someone´s feelings here!)! And I had to digest it that I did so and find an explanation why I did ..

Another thing nobody has mentioned til now .. - or I haven´t notice it yet ... this is the outstanding acting of the actor who impersonates Marley. His part/his role here was really short .. but his playing was extraordinaire and compelling! Bravo .. !

And did you notice .. how he was victim and aggressor at the same time! Never before I did see that. In this episode .. we have Jamie as the victim, we have Claire as the victim .. but shortly before .. as long she tries to free Jamie she is kind of an aggressor, too. And Jamie is aggressor in the few moments where he tried to strangle BJR with the chains ..

But Marley has the chance to play both roles more significantly   .. he is the victim of Black Jack Randall orders and at the same time he attacks Claire and Jamie! He is switching back and forth and the question is .. is he an agressor because he is at the mercy of Black Jack Randall and in attacking others (who seems to be weaker) he in reality attacks Captain Randall? Or has he enough brutality of his own inside himself which seeks a way to get freed? Do you think he/his personality is in some ways simliar to BJR or is he totally different in his pursuit of exerting violence on weaker persons?

Back to more questions/thoughts:

I do like very much the moment when Black Jack Randall appears on the inner courtyard of Wentworth Prison! And then his face expressions when he realizes that he has indeed Jamie for himself .. all for himself to do what he is pleased to do ..

But I am wondering ..

- how did he hear in the TV series from Jamie being there? Where was he before?
- how big his influence was that nobody spoke against the stopping of the hanging of Jamie?
- why Jamie get to eat such a big meal?


But the most important question of all is .. how came the writer of all the acting between BJR and Jamie before Claire arrived? On his own? Through questioning a little bit Diana?

I had the impressions .. mostly of his own! And do you think these scenes - between Jamie and Black Jack Randall - are believeable? Could this have been like this? And the opening lines of BJR .. as he enters the cell of Jamie .. what is the deeper meaning of it? Why did Tobias or the writer choose it to insert here? And would BJR of the book behave like this?

I find it a bit strange and somehow out of the blue .. to offer Jamie a perfect or honored death as a bargain to getting his body? We only learn what took place in Wentworth when Claire was not there in little little pieces through all eight books! And it is always from the point of view of Jamie and this might not be totally reliable due to all the emotional condition of Jamie at this time.

What do you think?

Apart from this .. I have to criticise that Jamie would never have allowed BJR to call him just Jamie! Much too intimate. But this is my personal opinion! It let Jamie appears weaker and I don´t like it! But maybe only I see it this way here?

Regarding leaving out the scenes of the wolves with Claire and the changed season:

- well, it is a pitty to left that out but I can fully understand that it would have been almost not be possible to portray a reasonable fight between Claire and any animals. But I thought they will find another idea to show that Black Jack Randall may have kept his promise to let her go but putting her at the same time in a very dangerous situation where she has to fight for her life. (For example throwing her from a very high point where cliffs are or something like that!)

My point is .. BJR was not interested that Claire stays alive and the proof is that he throws her out where the danger is very very big that she will have to deal with the wolf pack. You get what I mean ?

By the way .. are you not wondering .. how BJR became like he is here? What is his background? On CompuServe there is a ongoing discussion about BJR´s family and upbringing. For those who are interested .. the link is here:

CompuServe Black Jack Randall

The next thing is .. the season thing. The winter and the cold and the most important - it was Chrismas time - is playing a very important role for the story!

To rescue Jamie .. was something like a resurrections ... and that it took place during Chrismas time .. had a significance to me! And the bad and cold weather outside mirrors perfectly the dirty and cold fight of Jamie against Black Jack Randall.

This is missing here .. so I agree with you, dear Aikman Lass, they could have easily insert snow or cold weather here with modern television engineering. (But yes .. I know .. costs and costs and time and so on .. )

What is left ...

... did you see the shocked expression of Marley in the moment BJR took Jamie´s hand to fondle his own balls? Priceless good acting ..

.. I am wondering why was Jamie almost smiling as he was almost not conscious anymore and BJR slapped him in the face to force him staying awake? Minute 32.22? I am wondering ..

.. all the scene with MacRannoch .. I could have do without it! Didn´t like it. Really .. missed how it was in the book!

The acting of Claire was for me the most convincing of all scenes/episodes so far .. Wink! I liked that she - as she appears in the cell - at once asked Jamie to stay awake .. there the nurse in her appeared.

So, that is it! Wink



P.S.: dear Sternenglanz .. regarding having BJR in her head .. Diana said on CompuServe (unfortunately I forget to put a bookmark to it and wasn´t able to find it again ) that she would be a very dangerous person if she wouldn´t have any empathy or a conscience! What for a statement!
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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by Shagur on Wed 27 May - 22:04:47

Dear Sonia,

a few (well, perhaps some more) thoughts to your deliberate words:

Diana has written on Compu Serve that she has told Ron and Maril what had happened between Jamie and BJR. And that they did change one thing and Diana was not happy with what they wanted BJR to do/say and could persuade them to change that into something Diana could live with. She did not tell what this was about, just mentioned a „scene after the hanging“.

Why offering Jamie a honorable death? I think hanging was considered to be a shameful death.  Jamie suggested to Taran they should fight and therefor being shot by the redcoats instead of being hanged. At Ft. William BJR  offered to spare Jamie the second flogging (not only painful but shameful as well – Jamie hides his scars because flogging was used to shame men; one men in ep „Rent“ says, he´d rather be killed than shamed when Dougal bared Jamies scars).

Did Jamie allow BJR to call him Jamie? I must confess I didn´t understand his answer…

BJR and the wolves, him not being interested in Claire staying alive. Hmm. Did not think about that before. But in the books he does not know exactly about the wolves, does he? For sure he knows that there are wolves in the woods, but he does not know (or care) if they are there at that moment. He does not care if Claire will die or survive.
So in the series he lets her go (and she might have broken her leg by falling quite deep; and if so, the redcoats would have found her) because that was the deal. And I think it´s his „honor“ to keep his word (as it is in DIA when Claire helps his brother Alex).
But I think the series shows better why BJR is so interested in Claire than the books (I always kind of wondered about his interest in Claire in the books; of course it´s just her POV there).  „The garrison commander“  explains it very well and makes the political aspect very clear.

The season thing. There are several changes in seasons during the episodes (green leaves on all the trees when he leaves Claire in the wood with Willie when he meets Horrocks – it´s nearly Christmas time when the Grants attacked the camp a few days earlier). Unfortunately they never show or tell us that some time has passed by (at Leoch or at Lallybroch), but so it seems that they spent just a few days at Leoch before the witch-trial; so it should still be winter when they arrived at Lallybroch, but there were the flowers … personally, I do notice such things but for me it´s just a small inconsistence that I do not mind as I read about the out-of–sequence shooting and the tough weather conditions in Scotland…
As they started filming in september, they changed Claires timetravel to take place on the first of november instead of first of may (as in the books), so the whole series-schedule is shifted half a year.
Well, better than starting the filming half a year later, isn´t it?  

Yes, Marleys shocked expression, great!

Jamie almost smiling … I´ve to rewatch. But not now, the ep. is still very disturbing, not one to re-re-rewatch for me. Perhaps after 16 has aired.  (After I watched „Wentworth“ the second time, I had to watch drunk Jamie to cheer me up again)

I agree to you about the MacRannoch scene. Very rushed, not good written.

... so that´s all for today, I think I´ll get some sleep ... surprised
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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by Misty Blue on Wed 27 May - 22:53:41

As usual Sonia & Shagur, so thoroughly observed, & so succinctly conveyed.  I love the fact, that your posts always challenge me to analyse events at a more in depth level.  Particularly in relation to human behaviour. It is very easy to take a situation at face value, without the whys or where for's.  But sometimes we need to look beyond that, to discover the real reasons/truths of what is actually occurring.  Sometimes, it is simply just below the surface, if we choose to look hard enough.

Although utterly discomforting, as you say, there is almost a bizarre fascination with the dynamics of BJR relationship with Jamie.  Captain Randall exerts such a powerful aura, that he is completely aware, that no-one would dare question his perverse behaviour.  He alternates between offering words of comfort, then immediately twists them to create further despair. I agree Shagur about the honourable death. Jamie would have hated to leave this world in such a gruesome way. For him, dying by the sword, or to be shot, is how a great warrior should die.  For Jamie not to falter, even under such barbaric conditions, shows a strength most ordinary men would be incapable of.  Did something happen to BJR in his formative years, that created this sadistic streak within him.

As for Marley, even a man of limited intelligence, senses a "bully". His need to please BJR by carrying out his instructions is essential to him I think.  But then you see those moments where he acts under his own steam.  I believe his aggressive nature has been encouraged by the likes of Captain Randall.  Perhaps given a more conventional situation, this side of Marley's personality would have only showed itself when he was himself threatened.  He seemed almost fascinated by Claire, just a general man's instinct, when faced with an attractive woman, who bears all those admired feminine qualities maybe?  Or a temptation to exert brutal power over her?

And proof that BJR wanted to destroy the one thing Jamie truly loves, is when he throws Claire to the Wolves - literally.  Thanks to her unique ability to think on her feet instantly, Claire survives.
We don't see this on screen.  Does it bother me?  Ehmm.........I thought I had seen a photo of Claire with scratches on her face, not sure?  Is that something we will see in a flashback during Episode 16? If not, well in a way, I would prefer not to see Claire being maimed by a viscous animal.  But, I also recognise the fact, that the audience needs to appreciate how little Captain Randall values her life. But as you stated Shagur, BJR would not have known a starving wolf lay in wait for her. Like you said, just that fall alone could have caused severe physical damage to Claire, & left her once again at the mercy of the redcoats.

And finally the weather conditions. For me also this is an extremely minor point in the greater scheme of things. And has not by any means spoilt my thorough enjoyment of this brilliant & epic series. But that is just my own personal & humble opinion.
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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by soniaG on Wed 27 May - 22:54:38

Dear Shagur,

thank you very much for taking your time and answering to my post! Wink and hug

Regarding Jamie answering Black Jack Randall .. calling him Jamie .. yes .. he did answer "I care not" in the TV show. In the books he tells BJR his full title and don´t want him have him calling just Jamie!

Regarding the writer talking with Diana .. I do know .. we did this discuss here with Ayrlassie in another thread .. I heard about it and I did post some interesting answers from Diana .. Wink

But I am really wondering if BJR would this offer as an exchange .. well! But your train of thoughts is really worth to take into considerations .. Wink

....

Regarding the wolves scenes: yes .. BJR was well aware that he would risk Claire´s life because at the reencounter in Dragonfly in Amber BJR meets Claire again .. there he is astonished to find her still alive. In the books he wanted to get rid of her but made the deal to let her go from the prison in order to have Jamie´s willingsness to comply... but that doesn´t mean she wouldn´t be in any danger after leaving .. (somehow I remember he - BJR - was well aware of the fact that Claire would meet some wolves .. but I can´t remember how I came to this conclusion .. if due to discussions online or due to hints in the books .. haven´t reread Wentworth again)

And I do see .. I feel right now .. that I am very determined regarding this or better said .. my interpretation is like this! BJR has for me a twisted kind of honor, you know! Very interesting that for you BJR how he is portrayed in the TV show has helped you to understand why he is so interested in Claire .. Wink

Well, I have read the books so many times and discussed them on this other book forum .. that why this was never an open question and due to my second reason: .. why BJR was so interested in Claire is .. that he deep down felt the connection to her via her husband and his descendant Frank Randall. That he felt also that she is not telling the truth .. in more than one way .. in more than reasonable ways ..

Isn´t it interesting? How we all do process differently the books and the TV show? And how great we are able to talk about it!

I really appreciate what you all have written so far!

What more? Ah, about the right season being displayed on the TV show and all the reason because of the schedule of starting filming: I do know all your mentioned reasons, dear Shagur!

My argument or better I wanted just to express .. that the weather had - like in the book story plot - several different deeper meanings! I do know .. time/weather/money played a big role. But in this regard the TV show is somehow lacking for me .. that I have the impression that the only viewers will not get how much time have passed and don´t get the chance to see the connection between winter/chrismas time and the healing/rescue of Jamie.

That is all .. what I have to say right now .. Wink

And don´t worry about rewatching! Please take your time to digest in your own way! You don´t have to rewatch it in order to answer questions I do have, okay?

So, thank you very much for your long answer, dear Shagur!


-----------------


And now to you, dear Misty Blue .. Wink

Wow, again a long answer! I will read now and answer tomorrow, okay? First of all .. thank you .. for answering so quick and so lenghty! Great! Wink and  hug



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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by DIANE4564 on Thu 28 May - 8:02:08

Well done all of you Laasies for such an in depth analysis of episode 15
A thouraghly good read Thank you ilikeit
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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by soniaG on Fri 29 May - 22:48:09

Dear Misty Blue,

I do very much appreciate what you have all to say! Thank you!!!

Misty Blue wrote:  I agree Shagur about the honourable death. Jamie would have hated to leave this world in such a gruesome way.  For him, dying by the sword, or to be shot, is how a great warrior should die.  

As for Marley  ..  He seemed almost fascinated by Claire, just a general man's instinct, when faced with an attractive woman, who bears all those admired feminine qualities maybe?  Or a temptation to exert brutal power over her?  


Regarding the honorable death... well, how can Jamie die a honorable death after being used in any kind of way of Black Jack Randall? Clearly to BJR´ odd sense of honor this is working .. but would never have been worked with Jamie?

I do think there is a little tiny flaw in the plan .. either in BJR´s or in the plan of the writer of this episode! This is just as a side note! A honorable death could only be if Jamie could have fight with an equal weapon against BJR. And a tiny shadow of it we get by the scene where Jamie at least can save Claire from the hands of BJR .. Wink

But I don´t think that Jamie would have named any death offered or provided by BJR after being tortured and abused as a honorable way to die! I wonder if Jamie´s soul would have find peace if Claire hadn´t succeeded in the rescue of Jamie? Well, this an almost philosophical question .. what do you think or anybody else?

Regarding Marley .. interesting aspect! That he might have been provoked first by the mere fact that Claire didn´t acted in any way weak or as the typical female of these times .. Wink

A very interesting train of thoughts .. thank you, my dear!! Would have come up with this conclusion .. Wink

Regarding a struggle with the wolf .. well, I don´t think I would want to watch it either .. but like I already had mentioned the team crew could have created something similar life risking .. I do think the audience need to know that BJR is someone not to trust .. I don´t know if the audience already .. or those who didn´t read the books  or just started to read the books .. have understood that his honor is twisted ..

But maybe they don´t need to know it or to realize it .. the TV story line is so or so different and well .. to the TV BJR is different, too?!

That is it .. Wink


---------------------


Dear Di,

thank you for your kind words! Great to learn that you enjoy all what we are discussing here on a deeper level .. Wink


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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by DIANE4564 on Sat 30 May - 8:22:42

Hi Sonia, Yes I do I find it all very interesting thank you xx
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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by Banshee1970 on Sat 30 May - 21:49:50

soniaG wrote:
Regarding the honorable death... well, how can Jamie die a honorable death after being used in any kind of way of Black Jack Randall? Clearly to BJR´ odd sense of honor this is working .. but would never have been worked with Jamie?

Honorable death as in not shaming the family, for other he would have died a soldier's death and they wouldn't have know anything about what happened in Wentworth, no one would, for that would dishonour BJR.



As for BJR throwing out - literally: I think he only wanted to get rid of her asap, by the look on his face you can tell that he was scared when she told him his the date of his death. Don't think he cared much if she lived or died. He couldn't let her go out the usual door anyway as they would have met others on the way out and that might have resulted in others finding out what was actually going on. BJR could this not let happen. That he is surprised later (in the books) is not really surprising. As Jamie said "he will let you go because he thinks you're helpless". Suppose BJR was just surprised that she survived alone "in the wild" without help/friends - after all he thought she'd be alone.


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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by Misty Blue on Sun 31 May - 11:07:30

I completely agree Sonia, there is absolutely no way Jamie would have been given what he perceived as an honourable death whilst under imprisonment at Wentworth.  The moment where he attacks the soldiers, just before they escort him up to the platform where the men were hanged, was his last attempt to overcome his captors as a warrior.  And if he had been fatally wounded in the process, then at least he would have died a fighting man.

Once he was in the clutches of BJR, he could not be allowed a death of honour, but his bravery throughout this ordeal, was the behaviour of a true great warrior - such a fighting spirit.
As Banshee1970 says the great tragedy is, without Claire's intervention, no one would have known how greatly Jamie suffered.  Which is why men like Captain Randall were free to continue their torturous reign, over poor innocent victims.

I also totally share your point Sonia how Marley would have been completely thrown by the actions of such a strong woman like Claire.  Her life in the 20th Century dealing with men & threatening situations,  would have given her a courage not readily seen in the 18th Century.  
So yes, he would have been confused by this I'm sure, & as I said greatly fascinated.  Thank you as always for your profound comments. hug

Very interesting comments regarding BJR approach to Claire Banshee1970 - spot on!
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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by Aikman Lass on Sun 31 May - 21:45:06

Smile Hello All:
Wow!  surprised  Glad to see so many members with interesting observations & questions, nice to see this very busy thread. For a few days I could only take time to do viewing & reading but no comments. I think the amazing acting overshadowed my first observations when I said that the episode stayed closer to the original story. Little puffery there on my part. I think lochness said it best: his impression is the episode is well done but for those who have read the book it's a shadow of it.

Sadly the producers added their own creations and deleted others. I have a very big problem with the whole hanging scenes & BJR's mad rush into save Jamie from hanging. (Scenes not existing in the book) I guess the hangings get better ratings. Does it not bother anyone that with each man hanged we heard in the courtyard an extremely over-exaggerated loud crack of necks breaking & all men died instantly & Taran's neck had that big crack but instead of dying he is still alive & kicking? I'm not expert or knowledgeable about hanging but I believe for necks to snap it would take a greater velocity created by the weight of a body falling from a much higher distance. I think all those men hanged would have been jerking & twisting like Taran considering the short distance on that scaffold. Don't think we would hear such ridiculous loud snaps either. Also noticed that the storyline in the previous episode had Jamie stay behind to help a wounded Taran & that is how Jamie was caught. Surprising isn't it that on hanging day Taran had no wounds at all and looked just fine although a little dirty?

I personally did not like BJR thundering threw the gates to stop Jamie's hanging. What was the producers goal except that of drama. SoniaG you posed a number of interesting questions that relate to the TV episode: how did BJR near in the TV series of Jamie being in Wentworth?  - where was BJR before?  - how big his influence was that nobody spoke against the stopping of Jamie's hanging? I think this part of the scene would have confused non book readers as it does book readers. The producers have not given much info regarding BJR in previous episodes or this one. Maybe with the dungeon scenes with Jamie the producer wants viewers to think everything is about BJR's deviant sexually sadistic obsession with Jamie.

As book readers we know BJR a bit better & yes he is a sexual sadist but also so much more. Frank & Reverend Wakefield find some info that tells us BJR buys a commission as a Captain of Dragoons/ was a garrison commander of Fort William for approx. 4 years/ numerous complaints lodged against Randal but they found no indicator of investigations or dismissal showing in records/ Reverend Wakefield surmises that Franks ancestor BJR has a patron high up in the military ranks or nobility that could protect him from censure. We also know Randal was on forays into the Scottish countryside to collect supplies and harass the Scottish clans (to seek out Jacobite supporters). In the book - the MacKenzies, Murtagh, Claire & we the readers do not know BJR is at Wentworth until a prisoner in one cell tells Claire that Captain Randal took Jamie out. As readers I don't thing we were surprised that BJR was there perhaps we assumed that either he was demoted from his position at Fort William & sent to work at Wentworth or perhaps he was sent to many places as part of his job to find information for the Duke of Sandringham as he was an agent for him. Just my thoughts. Hope to post more later.

Regards
Aikman Lass

Aikman Lass
Wee Hamish

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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by Banshee1970 on Sun 31 May - 23:39:56

Aikman Lass wrote:
Does it not bother anyone that with each man hanged we heard in the courtyard an extremely over-exaggerated loud crack of necks breaking & all men died instantly & Taran's neck had that big crack but instead of dying he is still alive & kicking? I'm not expert or knowledgeable about hanging but I believe for necks to snap it would take a greater velocity created by the weight of a body falling from a much higher distance. I think all those men hanged would have been jerking & twisting like Taran considering the short distance on that scaffold. Don't think we would hear such ridiculous loud snaps either.

Regarding the loud crack, I agree, haven't ever attended a hanging (and I hope I never will) but I doubt the neck will break THAT loud. Could be wrong tho. For the first men happened what ideally should happen: the neck broke. Going by the many steps up to the gallow it seems they used the so-called long drop which results in a relatively quick death (either the neck breaks or the delinquent loses the consciousness within seconds). However, this seems historically not correct, likely in those days they would have used a cart or a ladder with which the delinquents would only be strangled, which takes a lot longer. The long drop only came to use in the 19th century.

But that aside, I assume they just wanted the sharp contrast between Taran and the others. With Taran they intended to prolong the death as he insulted the king and they just shoved him off mid sentence to a) silence him and/or b) show the others what happens to people who oppose the king.

Banshee1970
Wee Jamie

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Re: General chat episode 15

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