General chat episode 15

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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by Shagur on Mon 18 May - 13:28:32

Just watched it for the first time. I could not watch all the hanging, just tried to focus on listening to the dialogue between Jamie and Taran. My heart was throbbing from that moment on it and did not stop til the end … Different to all previous episodes I cannot watch this one again today. I need a break sad
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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by soniaG on Mon 18 May - 13:35:08

Oh my dear Shagur!

I didn´t watched the hanging either! As soon as I had read in a review what is happening about the hanging .. I knew I have to leave this out ..

But the rest .. well that was very differnt than I had expected before .. don´t know yet when I will write something about my impressions .. did watch it also only one time. Enough for the moment ..

For now I am sending you a big hug .. take your time hug  .. digesting everything .. hug
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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by connieg on Mon 18 May - 13:42:30

WOW! 56 minutes have never gone by so quickly! I couldn't believe it was already finished, I wanted more...... I guess we'll get that next week.
BJR is one majorly sick human being (can he even be called human?). The expressions on Sam's face were incredible and when he shed that tear.....
Cait's sobbing was heart wrenching.
The acting of Sam, Cait and Tobias was spellbinding. I was sitting on the edge of my seat, holding my breath for the entire episode.
Can't wait for the next (and final :( ) episode.

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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by Tartanlass on Mon 18 May - 16:57:09

Having read all the books this one about the Wentworth Escape so far has lived up to its part in the book  study and transferred onto the Screen, it was as I felt having read it, A very Brutal situation Jamie faced with Jack Randal. It Left me feeling like I couldn't watch at times and had to turn my head away from the screen with the rawness and depravity of Jack Randal's vicious madness and Claire's despair and desperation to save Jamie. Even having read that particular part in the book I remember feeling that omg moment and wasn't sure I could continue reading, but read I did lol and continued on to all the other books in the series. Cant wait for the next episode.
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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by Harry_the_Cat on Mon 18 May - 17:25:17

I am just getting the courage to watch it now :(

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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by Shagur on Mon 18 May - 18:50:53

soniaG wrote:
For now I am sending you a big hug .. take your time hug  .. digesting everything .. hug

Dear Sonia,
thank you, and I send you a huge hug back !!!
Similar to you I cannot express my feelings or thoughts about this episode yet, I really need time to digest it ...
hug
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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by ayrlassie on Mon 18 May - 23:05:33

Hope this is ok to post here.....a link to an article with Tobias about Wentworth...

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/outlander-wentworth-prison-jamie-black-jack-rape-119029435520.html


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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by Aikman Lass on Tue 19 May - 2:10:01

Smile Hello All:
Finally an episode that stayed much closer to the original story! As always the acting from all the cast was amazing. Such raw emotion Exclamation  I know some viewers thought Cait did not have sufficient acting experience or the skill to do justice to many scenes. From my aspect Cait did not have all total physical attributes of the book character but from the beginning she has done an amazing job in Outlander.
The scenes were great and did bring the book to life but I still think that the original Wentworth scenes from the book were much more traumatic in content.

Again some scenes that l feel were important to the story were left out. One of them is that after Claire told BJR she was a witch & cursed him she told him 'You will marry, Captain, and your wife will bear a child, but you shall not live to see your firstborn."...I think this prophesy from Claire shook BJRs inner being before she even mentioned his birth & death dates. This is an important little bit of info relevant to the future storyline.

I also have to say I don't think the producers or writers bothered to read the book to closely. Where is the Snow:?: Question  It is December:!:  Early before Murtagh & Claire meet Dougal we know the weather has been getting bad for many days & there besides lots of rain there now was snow. When Claire is thrown from the castle she lands amongst many hanged prisoners bodies mostly covered by snow. Also in two separate parts of the chapter there is mention that a big snowstorm is coming. Well these are my beginning thoughts.

Special Thanks to arylassie for your info regarding where to obtain 'Virgins' by Diana.
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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by ayrlassie on Tue 19 May - 4:13:20

Dear Aikman Lass,

Powerful acting by Tobias, Sam and Caitriona.....cudos to all of them - often without dialogue - absolutely brilliant!  The lip-curling, sneering, absolute evil depicted by BJR and look of obsession for Jamie.  The look in Sam's eyes knowing what's in store for him after the back kissing - the wide pupils (did they do that with drops?) the uncontrolled shaking and tear that rolled down his face was heart-breaking.  For someone that's not had the acting experience that Tobias and Sam have had - Cait did a stellar job in my opinion - I truly felt her heartbreak with the hand nailing and disgusting kiss that BJR gave Jamie. Gag!  I totally believed her reaction and sobbing.

Aikman Lass - I think because of the difference in the shooting schedule - book vs series.....book in Spring and Series in Fall....that's why this episode occurs when the weather isn't cold and therefore no snow.  I could be wrong though. And yes, we miss much of the dialogue from the book but hopefully those that read these comments who aren't book readers, will have their interest piqued and will go and read the books.  Just saying!  Can't hurt to garner more people to enjoy the wonderful world of Diana's books Wink

I don't seem to be making much sense right now - all over the place - sorry!  Guess I need more time to better organize my thoughts.

This is my favorite episode so far......and I'm looking forward to the finale.  Well, not necessarily looking forward but certainly anticipating...much discussion by all of us in the future.


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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by connieg on Tue 19 May - 4:40:56

Ayrlassie, you are correct. Aikman Lass, the shooting schedule was changed by 6 months. Instead of winter, it was spring/summer. That's why Claire went through the stones in October instead of April. I read somewhere that it had to do with lining up the seasons to match the shooting schedule, so everything was shifted.

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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by Shagur on Tue 19 May - 13:37:51

It is a bit irritating for me that most of the reviews about this ep. praise the acting of Tobias highest, how hard it is to play the evil one; where is the huge applause for Sam? Just having watched the episode a second time, I think he did a fabulous job and it must be much more difficult to portray the victim.
So I fully agree to this article:

http://yourracingbelle.tumblr.com/post/119276193681/some-more-thoughts-about-wentworth-sam-heughan
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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by ayrlassie on Tue 19 May - 15:27:57

Dear Shagur.  Thank you so much for posting this link - I hope everyone will read it!  I agree wholeheartedly with you that Sam doesn't seem to get the accolades that Tobias does.....and, he should.

I saw this link posted on DG's FB page - it features an interview with Tobias - and Diana states that Sam is on set while Tobias is not and therefore available for interviews.

http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/outlander_wentworth_prison_tobias_menzies_darkest_scenes-2015-05

The first video isn't available to watch (to me anyway) but the second one is.

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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by CJane on Tue 19 May - 20:07:02

All the reviews had me worried I wouldn't even make it through the episode, that being said, I did and felt they made it out to be far worse. It was a very powerful performance for everyone. Definitely think that everyone played excellently. Cannot wait to see the next one. I just kept waiting for the cows :p
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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by santhomp on Tue 19 May - 21:04:10

Well this episode was as hard to watch as I imagined it would be and I am not entirely looking forward to next week, as I think we'll be in for a few uncomfortable 'flash back' scenes. I agree that Tobias acted wonderfully but I was more impressed by Sam. His wordless portrayal of the total terror that Jamie had for the situation was gripping, hats off to him. I also found Claire's final scene with him harrowing and very well acted by both.

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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by jen001 on Wed 20 May - 4:49:54

A great episode and for me, the best so far.  Tobias Menzies is amazing as the sadistic brutal BJR (I’ll never be able to picture him as anybody else now), and I agree that Sam’s performance was stellar as well – the utter despair and resignation on his face and the tear at the end.  It must have been very difficult to play the role of victim so effectively.  Cait was fantastic too.  Emmys all round I think.

I’ve only watched the episode once so far and, as I’m away on vacation tomorrow, won’t see the last episode until June 9th – not sure how I’ll survive waiting that long. pale

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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by Banshee1970 on Wed 20 May - 20:41:04

ayrlassie wrote:
[b]Aikman Lass - I think because of the difference in the shooting schedule - book vs series.....book in Spring and Series in Fall....that's why this episode occurs when the weather isn't cold and therefore no snow.

It wouldn't have made a difference, this is Scotland not Canada Wink We don't get that much snow around here and if there is some more snow around for a couple of weeks all roads are closed and the cast would have had no chance to get to any of the filming locations, especially the more remote ones. laughing

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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by Misty Blue on Wed 20 May - 23:09:04

I think the power of Episode 15, on our entire senses, is something I have never experienced before. (And I have watched many things over the years).  I felt completely overwhelmed by the end, as I'm sure we all did.
You smelt the "foulness" of that prison.  You reached out to Claire in her sorrow & despair.  The intolerable pain, suffering & fear that Jamie endured at the hands of BJR, was so prevalent, it made it almost impossible to watch at times.  But somehow you "had to".  The bravery Jamie with-held was heart-wrenching.  To bear such strength, when at the mercy of such a sick-mind, showed an invincible spirit.  But as we who have read the book's all know, Jack Randall would not be satisfied until that spirit was truly broken.  The scene where Jamie sacrificed himself for his beloved Claire, just illustrated what was undeniably present between them all along - a love & devotion so abundantly strong & true, it is worth dying for.  And that is why at that moment, you thought your own heart would break alongside theirs.  
The absolute outstanding performances, should rightfully be applauded to the highest accolades.  Yes Tobias was terrifyingly sadistic in his part, but Sam was simply magnificent, (as was Caitriona).  To have to delve so deep inside yourself, & give over complete control to another human being, & one you know intends to do you serious harm, how on earth do you portray that?  But my gosh Sam did - so honestly.  And Caitriona's responses to the brutal reality of Claire & Jamie's situation - was just incredible.  They both went beyond brilliant!
I suspect we have worse to come.  But I just hope & pray, Ron Moore has the decency & goodness of heart, not to leave us on a tear-jerking cliff-hanger.  Well not unless they're happy tears of course!
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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by ayrlassie on Wed 20 May - 23:43:17

[quote="Banshee1970"
It wouldn't have made a difference, this is Scotland not Canada Wink We don't get that much snow around here and if there is some more snow around for a couple of weeks all roads are closed and the cast would have had no chance to get to any of the filming locations, especially the more remote ones. laughing [/quote]

Hi Banshee  Smile

Well, on the West Coast of Canada, where I live, we don't get a lot of snow either, being right on the ocean - thank heavens cause it would cause the same sort of traffic havoc that you describe.  Aikman Lass was referring to the book, where there was snow on the ground during this scene.  But I'm guessing now that you knew that and just wanted to add a bit of humour .... If so.....point taken Wink

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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by ayrlassie on Thu 21 May - 0:02:01

Dear Debbie (Misty Blue),

Yes, yes, yes to all that you have said.  

I do wish, however, that Ron D. Moore and writers had made it more evident to the non-book readers during the prior episodes, of the deep and abiding love and trust that Claire and Jamie have for one another (not just the sex, although that's also important to the story  Wink ) that will last for decades - as we all know it will!

I'm sure it will come full circle in the Finale.

Once again Admins.....I've posted back to back....please forgive!


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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by karelynnCDN on Thu 21 May - 0:14:20

I am looking forward to episode 16 as I believe that 15 and 16 will complement one another greatly.

And while I am a firm believer in the tv series standing on its own and not needing to include every detail in the books, I just remembered the scene where we are finally sure that Jamie will be okay cause he takes off down the road with no pants on ! Back to being his ever loving stubborn self.

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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by lochness on Thu 21 May - 15:27:37

Ok Lassies I used VPN here in China and after a protracted length of time I downloaded the episode. My impressions its well done but for those of us who have read the book its a shadow of it . To be fare that's all one should expect from it. There is no way that the impact can be anywhere close. Having said that it's well done in my opinion and as has been said here the acting and directing is superb. I felt detached however watching it which is not what I experienced after first reading the book. This is always going to be hard because we have had the book experience first. It's like comparing the women that follow to that first love. Lucky for me my first was my one and only true love. Peace to all from Shenyang China .
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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by Banshee1970 on Thu 21 May - 17:23:33

ayrlassie wrote:Aikman Lass was referring to the book, where there was snow on the ground during this scene.  But I'm guessing now that you knew that and just wanted to add a bit of humour .... If so.....point taken Wink

Yep, I know what she meant, and my post was partly serious about it. Even IF the had stuck to the book and filmed in winter, chances are that theses scenes would still be without snow. But in the end I'm not bothered about these bits and pieces that don't match up with the book. I sometimes get confused about some changes in the story itself (like the Duke of Sandringham) but that's about it. Book is one thing, series a separate thing - to me anyway. Constantly comparing the series to the book I would ruin it for me I guess. Forget the book and enjoy my Sunday mornings on Prime, that's my motto Smile

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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by Misty Blue on Thu 21 May - 17:28:59

And to you lochness!
Dear Norma (ayrlassie) I completely agree. I always feel I have an advantage, knowing the stories so well, before I watched this "marvellous" series. And particularly with regard to Episode 15, having the extensive knowledge that Jamie & Claire's bond has developed to such a deeply intense, & unbreakable bond (outside their incredibly passionate & powerful physical relationship), it make's the whole situation more drastically dire & heart-breaking.
Black Jack's revolting kiss, is almost like his twisted sense, of trying to take away what Jamie & Claire share intimately. But of course, we as book readers, know this is an impossibility. Jamie's spirit & whole body may be damaged, as a result of BJR perverse & horrific actions. But Claire is the only one who can repair his soul, & bring Jamie back to a fullness of life. And only a true love's heart has the power to perform such a miracle.
Would a purely viewing audience, sense the enormity, of that rare & unique bond Jamie & Claire share? Mmmm...........I'm not entirely sure. It just makes me very appreciative to have found these literary treasures. And I simply hope it encourages all the non-book viewers to order, or go out & buy, Ms Gabaldon's "fantabulous" books! with immediate haste!
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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by Aikman Lass on Thu 21 May - 21:39:31

scotflag Hello All:
To lochness - nice to hear your thoughtful comments again.

I need to rehash my earlier comments in regard to 'Snow! actually lack of Snow!' I know it might seem unimportant or even irrelevant to many viewers...but it is important for establishing time frames & also helps to indicate passage of time in the TV show & not just because it is in the book.  In the Wentworth scenes we are seeing basically summer like weather with dreary skies. We don't see the characters hunched up or wrapped in their extra length of plaid to signify freezing cold weather, blowing on their freezing hands to warm them & I'm not sure but I don't remember any steamy breath in any scenes that would show how frigging cold it is suppose to be in this episode. Some scenes were filmed in Linlithgow but not sure if the outside scenes were filmed there. In one of the earlier Outlander episodes I distinctly remember scenes with Claire & Jamie outdoors & their steamy breath indicating very cold weather.....couldn't be done here Question
When filming it is important to include visual information in a movie or TV show but it seems another one of Ron's failings. How many non book readers would have surmised that the scene took place in winter with the way the episode was shot? I'm sure there was a way to film these scenes with snow without any major problems. If the producers give us summer scenery for December at Wentworth then what are they going to give us for 'The Battle of Culloden Moor'Question On April 16th with driving rain & sleet blowing in their faces the worn out Jacobite army had to advance towards a strong well rested enemy.

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Re: General chat episode 15

Post by Ilona on Fri 22 May - 6:09:12

Dear Aikman Lass,

I think the producers have admitted to have "turned" the seasons of the show (don't remember exactly the reason, might be they simply started shooting in the autumn instead of spring and they did most of the filming in line with the story). So the Wentworth prison scene in the show doesn't take place in winter but in the summer. That's how I see it. And it isn't really crucial, is it ? And I am pretty sure they won't make Culloden look like a pentecost picknick. Oh, btw, have a nice long weekend everybody !!
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