General Chat for Episode 13.

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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by ayrlassie on Tue 5 May - 21:54:17

Dear Aikman Lass....I am so sorry as well!  You do sound like a very strong woman and so I hope you've found ways to cope.

Dear lochness,
The birthing scenes - well, I think Laura portrayed Jennie as a woman in labour (there's that pesky 'u' again) very well - the irritability, restlessness and thinking that you can't do this - but I do know from experience that it's impossible to scream and push at the same time....try it Wink  I'm not sure if the writer, Toni Graphia, has had children but maybe not - or - they just had it for dramatic effect - or - maybe a breech birth is somehow different.
I do think Cait and Laura played the scenes well and provided an opportunity for the characters to bond and trust one another.

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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by Aikman Lass on Tue 5 May - 22:58:37

Hi lochness & ayrlassie:
Anonymity on the forum felt safe...Only ever discussed with a doctor...but hearing about the wife of lochness I felt terrible for her & identified with her feelings & how she handled this.  Many thanks for your concerns but not too worry, time eventually heals all & life becomes good again...well with a little edge.

Now to more pleasant thoughts!  Comments on Outlanders scenes.
Unfortunately I have never had the joy of going through labour (pain included)...but I have witnessed a few hospital deliveries...and your right ayrlassie...I never say any women in the delivery room scream while they were pushing. Having not experienced I can't really comment on the build up scene to the birth. Ron definitely went for more drama with the breech birth for viewers who know it's dangers....and amazingly he managed to add in another nudity styled scene for ratings. Don't get me wrong...I'm a woman & I think pregnant women look beautiful (they bring new life into this world)...but Ron seems to have a real 'bee in his bonnet'' in regard to lots of nudity. Nice light topic lochness! I didn't have much to rant about.
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by lochness on Tue 5 May - 23:13:40

Nice light topic lochness! I didn't have much to rant about.

I am really going to miss you ladies when I am in China!

Dear Aikman Lass I am working on it. Wink
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by Aikman Lass on Wed 6 May - 0:29:40

[quote="lochness"]
I am really going to miss you ladies when I am in China!

Hi lochness.
Enjoy your trip but do watch out for the dog meat, cat meat and squirming squid tentacles while your there. China will be a very interesting place to visit. Hope you did your homework so you don't miss out on all the great things to be seen in China.

All of us on the forum will be missing the levity and great comments you post. Safe journey & safe trip home.
Now I better get back to commenting on 'favourite or not favourite scenes' category. I was almost finished a mini rant about Ian killing Horrocks and wouldn't you know it my foster kitties started their nagging because I was ten minutes late with their supper... I did a wrong click & lost everything. No real postings there for some reason so it needs input.

Regards
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by lochness on Wed 6 May - 0:57:22

Enjoy your trip but do watch out for the dog meat, cat meat and squirming squid tentacles while your there. China will be a very interesting place to visit.

Dear Aikman Lass it is indeed. I travel there four times a year to help train our Ophthalmologists to deal with the myopia epidemic which effects 90% of university level students. The Pacific Rim has the highest level of myopic incidence in the world. This is really off topic but its very gratifying to help others. This is my way of giving back and saying thank you for the amazing life I have lived. I really enjoy all these trips that now take me literally around the world.
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by ayrlassie on Wed 6 May - 1:16:03

Aikman Lass wrote:Hi lochness & ayrlassie:
Anonymity on the forum felt safe...Only ever discussed with a doctor...but hearing about the wife of lochness I felt terrible for her & identified with her feelings & how she handled this.  Many thanks for your concerns but not too worry, time eventually heals all & life becomes good again...well with a little edge.

Now to more pleasant thoughts!  Comments on Outlanders scenes.
Unfortunately I have never had the joy of going through labour (pain included)...but I have witnessed a few hospital deliveries...and your right ayrlassie...I never say any women in the delivery room scream while they were pushing. Having not experienced I can't really comment on the build up scene to the birth. Ron definitely went for more drama with the breech birth for viewers who know it's dangers....and amazingly he managed to add in another nudity styled scene for ratings. Don't get me wrong...I'm a woman & I think pregnant women look beautiful (they bring new life into this world)...but Ron seems to have a real 'bee in his bonnet'' in regard to lots of nudity. Nice light topic lochness! I didn't have much to rant about.
Regards
Aikman Lass

I'm so glad to hear that you've healed (as much as can be expected) and carried on with your life Aikman Lass - a sign of a real survivor!  I hate the term 'victim' as it implies weakness ..... surely not you!

I feel that Ron is trying to garner the male viewer - not you lochness (with the nude and fighting scenes) to the series as he knows that the majority of book readers are female but he wants to broaden the scope and thus increase viewer-ship to include men and ensure that the series will continue with better ratings - why wouldn't he?  This will sound crass.....but ultimately it will lead to more money in the trough. I hate to say it, but do we want to sacrifice purism and see that it ends perhaps after the 2nd Season or will we be satisfied will another's POV and just suck it up in order to see it until the end?  You know my view, book vs t.v.....yada, yada, yada  lol!

And lochness.....I'm sure you'll find a way to access our posts while in China...you know you will! I personally thank you for all the good that you do hug

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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by lochness on Wed 6 May - 1:40:02

And lochness.....I'm sure you'll find a way to access our posts while in China...you know you will! I personally thank you for all the good that you do

Dear Ayrlassie no thanks necessary. I am not sure who gets more out of this the doctors we train and children they help or me with all the smiling faces as reward enough. You know its great for the human soul! I will be around another week so you can't get rid of me that quickly and yes I hope to get through their censors to catch up on what my friends here on the forum are up to. Wink
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by ayrlassie on Wed 6 May - 3:24:20

lochness wrote:[ I will be around another week so you can't get rid of me that quickly and yes I hope to get through their censors to catch up on what my friends here on the forum are up to. Wink

Oh, good, more spirited discussion!  Looking forward to it excited happy

I just wanted to add another thing....two years ago I noticed while driving that I couldn't read the street signs, even up close and at night all was blurry, no depth perception ....o.k. I'm getting old - sheesh! Long story short I had cataracts - who would have thunk it, not me.  Anyhow, I had a wonderful specialist and underwent surgery and now see perfectly.  Not sure if that's the type of surgery that you do lochness but we don't appreciate the sight we have until we lose it and so anything that can improved upon is a blessing.

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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by lochness on Wed 6 May - 4:33:37

Dear Ayrlassie glad to hear it went well. Cataract surgery has truly advanced in the last quarter century. We work on keeping myopia(nearsightedness ) from becoming a problem . If left alone it can be devastating for the health of the eye as it progresses to higher levels. One day we hope to prevent it but that may have to wait for my younger colleagues in our group. Today we use specialty designed contacts, glasses ,Pharmaceuticals and behavioral modification.
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by Shagur on Wed 6 May - 17:47:07

lochness wrote:[b] I am not sure who gets more out of this the doctors we train and children they help or me with all the smiling faces as reward enough. You know its great for the human soul!  

Very well said, Lochness! Wish you a safe trip and LOTS of smiling faces! Wink
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by lochness on Wed 6 May - 18:09:54

Shagur wrote:
lochness wrote:[b] I am not sure who gets more out of this the doctors we train and children they help or me with all the smiling faces as reward enough. You know its great for the human soul!  

Very well said, Lochness! Wish you a safe trip and LOTS of smiling faces! Wink

Dear Shagur Thank you Smile
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by soniaG on Thu 7 May - 18:20:52

Dear all .. Lochness, Shagur, Aikmen Lass, Ayrlassie, Misty Blue et al!

Well .. it is a little quiet here .. right! Wink

So .. here we go ..

- dear Shagur: re "selective reading" I got it! Well, I am the contrary to you .. the first times I am reading with speed and just want to come to the end. And then with rereading I want to devour each thing and understand each twist and turn. I analyze the books deeply, look all kind of history or battle things up I don´t know yet and I am reading each book after the first read as an writer .. you know ..  Smile

- dear Lochness: how long will you stay in China? With your lovely wife? You know after this Sunday .. with Wentworth and all .. I could imagine the discussions will likely be a little be more heated again and therefore we do need you ..  Wink


- dear Ayrlassie: ha, garner men and so ... laughing out loud!!  lol!

- dear Aikman Lass: good to hear that you are healing from your challenging past events! You have my sympathy ..  hug


--------------------------------

Back to the overall topic .. I´ve made a pause but today I´ve read a little bit in one of the CompuServe discussion about this episode the WATCH and here are some comments from her which I do find interesting ..

1) Regarding letting out the betrayal of father McNab:

Dear nke--
  I should just keep quiet, I know...but Look:  they don't _need_ MacNab, because the Watch subplot accomplishes exactly what MacNab accomplished.   There isn't room to do the extra fillip of the MacNab plot, where the other tenants burn him alive--that's a nice bit in the book, for assorted reasons, but all those reasons are thematic and moral, not necessary for the superficial layer on which television operates.
    MacNab's sole plot reason is to deliver Jamie (eventually) into the hands of the English.  That is, unless I'm very much mistaken, what just happened.
--Diana 


2) Regarding Jamie judging about himself .. and being a bloody man:

Dear Mary--
   Jamie is a far harsher judge of his own behavior than (I think) any of the readers, and a more objective one.  He's telling the truth when he tells Claire his sins, just before sending her back, when he says that his love of her is all he has to balance the scales.  And when he wakes up on Culloden thinking he's dead, he _knows_ he's earned a good spell in Purgatory, and is meek about it.
     All through the books, he tells Claire repeatedly that he's a bloody man.  He isn't being hyperbolic; he means it, and he's right.  He kills people to solve problems.  Maybe only serious problems, and only when he can't find another good solution, but still.  He won't leave vengeance to God; he's positive that it's his responsibility.
    And he's dead right--his great love (of Claire, his family, his men, those he considers to be his own)--_is_ all he's got to balance his personal scales.
--Diana 


3) Regarding McQuarry .. the new plot twist in this episode: we will see Mr. McQuarry again .. in episode 15 "Wentworth"! My guess is that he is with Jamie in the prison ..

...................................

Apart from that .. I discovered how to make screenshots from my PC and from a video!!FINALLY!   kilt

And I did make quiet a few yesterday from Jamie´s face expressions from THE WATCH episode .. I am thinking to post them with myself invented headlines here somewhere because he has really a wide range of face expressions .. it is great! I really do think it is the episode where you do really see how Sam is able to show us so many different feelings on his face ...

And watching the episode with the concentration of the face expressions is really a very different experience .. Wink! Mostly I try to follow the story line, have to deal with different unexpected twist and turns and so I don´t notice enough the face expressions ...

And it is a good learning for me .. a long time in my life I was not good a reading face expressions .. either didn´t look directly in the face, or was fearing something bad or shy ... and it is still difficult for me to read a person just from its face expressions. I have no problem to hear all kind of feelings if I am hearing the voice even I don´t see the person.

So .. that is my input for now!  tech station

SoniaG


Last edited by soniaG on Thu 7 May - 22:06:20; edited 2 times in total
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by lochness on Thu 7 May - 19:59:35

dear Lochness: how long will you stay in China? With your lovely wife?

Dear Sonia two weeks. My wife was originally going but her mother has not been doing well recently so she may have to visit her instead.
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by Misty Blue on Thu 7 May - 21:56:54

Hi everyone - compelling & great comments as usual!
I'm a little late to the party this week as I like to watch an episode twice before making a post. Stealing ayrlassie's words (thank you Norma) that's my excuse, & I'm sticking to it.
Well it was action packed. Like Diana stated; "Half like the book, half not". And, I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Loved seeing the bond being established between Jenny & Claire. Jamie's fearlessness when it came to protecting his family & home - "Yeah go Jamie"! And although the moments between J & C were altogether brief, I was really touched by the "apology" scene to each other. When Claire confessed; "I don't think I can have children", I wanted to yell at the screen - "You can Claire, you can. Just wait a wee bit longer lass"!
The Watch with the exception of the leader, & the guy who brought Ian home - a real dastardly bunch of men - BOO - HISS!!!
And poor Claire's face at the end, having celebrated the birth of Jenny's daughter, her joy turned to heartache & fear, with the realisation her beloved Jamie has not returned.
As lochness commented, we are turning the corner now into very dark waters. Well we knew it was coming didn't we? But as I said in another thread, it does not make it any easier does it?
And from reading previous comments here I know violent acts have naturally dominated conversations here this week as well. To your dear wife lochness, & you Aikman Lass, you are both shining examples of the courage, strength & spirit women possess in times of extreme difficulty & trauma. I only wish women like yourselves, had never been put in that position in the first place - but sadly we will never live in a world like that, as we are all aware.
As far as skip reading, well I may have done that three times in total, with Voyager, DIA, & ABOSAA. I think you can probably guess the reasons why. But I immediately went back to my original location to read every single line Diana created. As we know her book's were meant to be savoured, cherished, & re-read often, as I'm sure we all do!
Sonia so true about the Jamie facial expressions, fascinating to watch!
And finally, hope all goes well with your wife's mother lochness. flower flower flower
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by soniaG on Thu 7 May - 22:02:50

lochness wrote:dear Lochness: how long will you stay in China? With your lovely wife?

Dear Sonia two weeks. My wife was originally going but her mother has not been doing well recently so she may have to visit her instead.

Dear Lochness,

then also from my side all the best .. for your mother-in-law!

And well, then you are exactly the two weeks in China when we are dealing with Wentworth and the last episode which I will name already Wentworth 2 ... hope really you find access in China and you are coming healthy back!

Good luck with all your great work!
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by soniaG on Fri 8 May - 7:50:14

Dear Shagur,

Misty Blue wrote:
To your dear wife lochness, & you Aikman Lass, you are both shining examples of the courage, strength & spirit women possess in times of extreme difficulty & trauma.  I only wish women like yourselves, had never been put in that position in the first place - but sadly we will never live in a world like that, as we are all aware.

VERY WELL said!! I second that! Wink

As far as skip reading, well I may have done that three times in total, with Voyager, DIA, & ABOSAA.  I think you can probably guess the reasons why.  But I immediately went back to my original location to read every single line Diana created.  As we know her book's were meant to be savoured, cherished, & re-read often, as I'm sure we all do!


Yeah, I can guess! Certainly I can! And I agree to the rest .. nothing more to say...

Sending a big smile to you, dear Shagur! very happy

Dear all,

it is astonishing .. it is so quiet on this thread here ... laughing ! Not any heated exchange here .. Wink ! I know .. we are all busy with others things .. but I am really looking forward for the next episode!! But I will be late to it .. will be on an event Sunday from noon to early evening and watching the next one probably Sunday night or first Monday!

Ah .. I am really curious what we will see next .. the special personal offer of Dougal to Claire? Certainly some entertaining stuff with Claire and Murtagh? Then Jenny going slightly in torture mode on one of the Redcoats .. am not too amused about it .. and you?

Matt Roberts, one of the hardcore book fans (and he read them all and not only the first book as all the other crew members), has written this episode. He wrote the Gathering which I do like very much .. Wink

Any ideas for tweaking and twists unexpected? I am curious to know .. dear all!!!

hello there
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by Shagur on Fri 8 May - 19:34:39

To be honest, I´ve got not so much of an idea how they will spend a full episode with the search. I think I´ve read something about Claire singing (but I´m not sure about that).
Looking forward to see Murtagh, Angus & Rupert again.
Really do not want to complain in advance, but … 55 minutes and no scene with Jamie & Claire together …

Sonia, did you read Dianas answer on Compuserve if we´ll see Taran MacQuarrie again? Wasn´t it something like #becarefulwhatyouwish ? Sounds quite mysterious; I can think of two chances: there is a connection with Taran and BJR which does Jamie no good (but I like Taran so I hope he´s a good guy) or something very bad happens to him at Wentworth, too.

Regarding Jamie judging about himself .. and being a bloody man
It´s a bit weird: so many people did complain about the spanking scene (an absolute „No-go“ in our days and culture, how could Jamie do something, it is wrong to show that on tv, … )
But: I´ve not read any comment about Jamie killing people – which is much worse to do to another human being. In the book, he killed a soldier at Ft. William so he rescued Claire with an empty pistol. The man he killed was an innocent soldier who just did his job! (So one might say bad luck, he was just at the wrong place at the wrong time!?) In the series Ian killed Horrocks who blackmailed the Frasers. Horrocks did not actually aim at Jamie with his pistol. Does blackmail justify murder? Is there a big outcry at fanpages, forums, social media? No, it´s accepted as being „normal“ in the 1700s. So Diana is well and more aware of Jamies sins as she created him being aware of that fact as well.
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by soniaG on Sat 9 May - 9:15:29

Dear Shagur,

I will anser later .. but thanks in advance .. you gave me a few thoughts about thinking about all the violence again ... and Jamie killing again and again .. later more .. ;

.. waving to all of you and sending you lots of sun beams ...  sunny  sunny  sunny
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by Teasle11 on Sat 9 May - 9:20:40

Shagur wrote:
Sonia, did you read Dianas answer on Compuserve if we´ll see Taran MacQuarrie again? Wasn´t it something like #becarefulwhatyouwish ? Sounds quite mysterious; I can think of two chances: there is a connection with Taran and BJR which does Jamie no good (but I like Taran so I hope he´s a good guy) or something very bad happens to him at Wentworth, too.

Dear Shagur, I hope we see MacQuarrie again, I liked him. I doubt Wentworth can get any worse than I'm already imagining, however his story line developes!! I was hoping to see Lt Forester(?) again (aka Lt cutie pie), just to relieve some of the horror.
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by soniaG on Sat 9 May - 9:32:19

Dear Teasle11,

don´t worry!!

Diana confirmed it! We do see MacQuarrie again for sure .. in episode 15!! Wentworth ..

As a side note .. did you know that Wentworth can be a last name? I just finished a YA novel where a character has this name as a last name? I was surprised .. Wink

-------------------------------


DEAR ALL,


there is a two week break coming up! We will see the last episode first 30th of May. I did put the infos in another thread here in the episode thread!!!

USA is celebrating Memorial Day and because of it .. there is a break .. Wink

Here is the link to the infos..

Pls click me!
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by Aikman Lass on Sat 9 May - 20:12:07

hello there Hello Outlandians:
Obligations have made me miss comments here. As SoniaG mentioned this thread is really quiet. In the favourite/ non favourite thread I posted about a scene I really should have place here for discussion....too late now.

As each episode airs we are seeing more & more total remakes of original personas of all characters & new ones added, deletions of very special scenes important in connecting the characters & storyline, adding of totally new storys changing the book & it's characters irrevocably. As I read about contents of upcoming episodes I would hold out hope only to have it dashed as I watched the show.  

The non favourite scene I talked about involved Jamie, Horrocks & Ian was totally unacceptable in every way. I don't think I can delete or move my post to this section now so if anyone wants to view it you can see where my thinking is coming from especially in regard to where the producer is becoming even careless in their creation of new storylines.

Another post I read was saying that Ron's changes were to please, entertain & keep non-reading viewers watching the show (credit ratings you know!) but at the same time without upsetting or losing the viewers who are the book fans. I admit that quality wise as a 'time period' piece it is colourful, entertaining & dramatic but that's as far as it goes. I have to admit my growing distaste for the Outlander production which has become a real farce. I don't disrespect other viewers who like the way the show is produced as most people like a good racy drama story & this one has all the bells & whistles (battles, killing, sex scenes, nudity,(wow even a brief scene of frontal male nudity) violent (almost) rape scenes, humourous characters, etc. True as book readers we can simply separate the book from the TV show & just enjoy the show for what it is 'entertainment'. I realize with each new episode I can't think that way anymore. When any producer decides to turn a book into a TV show or movie they should follow the storyline as close as possible (exactly what Ron said he would do but turned out he lied) and we should expect some minor changes. Sadly what we are viewing is a Ronlander TV show built off of the backbones of Diana's Outlander. I know there are many like myself who don't like all these major changes to the story and the characters. Even though I like debating the contents of the book versus the show I am finding it more & more difficult to watch. I hope I can continue to watch in order to bring a different view to non-readers so that they will know what they are missing when it comes to Diana's books.  Well these are my extremely ranty long-winded thoughts. mad

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Aikman Lass  

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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by outlander12 on Sun 10 May - 1:04:35

Mention has been made of claire singing. It is possible, because she and murtagh did so in the book while trying to locate jamie. Will be an interesting episode
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by ayrlassie on Sun 10 May - 4:59:19

Yes, outlander12,

I read on the CompuServe site that Claire (Cait) does indeed sing in this episode and that she has a lovely voice.  I'm looking forward to seeing it tomorrow (today) depending where you are and it (the song) has a bit of a modern twist!

P.S.  Dear Aikman Lass - I hear you - and appreciate your thoughts as always.  But, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree....no dis-respect - we have different perspectives and I will always honour that  Smile

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