General Chat for Episode 13.

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Episode 13

Post by susaneml on Mon 4 May - 4:55:00

Oh my gosh, I just watched episode 13. I know the darkness is so to come. I am excited but at the same time a bit nervous about watching it.

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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by Scheepskat on Mon 4 May - 8:22:24

Aikman Lass wrote:hello there Hello Everyone:
Oh Hell! Here I go again! "Odd man out!"

Comments referring to this being a good episode even with the new revised story line...you could be right...story was interesting...how could Diana not agree to changes, she legally has no say in what Ron does....

"Odd man out" - I have problems with scenes & dialogue that belonged back in previous episodes but I do have one big issue & that is the whole new story created with 'The Watch'....'The Watch' (a number of regiments, some were from the local people from Highlands but not sure if all were ) was set up just after the start of the Jacobite uprising back in 1715. In 1725 their paid job was to patrol the Highlands to prevent cattle rustling and smuggling & apprehending criminals would be part of their job. I have never seen any written material anywhere that even hinted that 'The Watch' did anything improper such as killing, raiding, rape, abusing people & burning their homes.....So Diana's version of Jamie being caught by 'The Watch' (who were told Jamie was a declared criminal & where to ambush him) was the proper accurate version that would have been just as exciting & less wasteful of time taken to build new characters & scenes at Lallybroch. I am personally tired of TV, Movies & News Medias that fudge, distort or out-and-out lie about facts and history instead of helping to further mankindss knowledge about everything. It is unacceptable in this day & age for people to be lacking in proper knowledge:!:.... mad .A good example of lack of information - not far back in the seventies & even early eighties there were still many people in the USA (our neighbours across the border) who actually thought once they crossed the border all of Canada had snow all year round...like what:?: Question  they thought we were all Inuit:?: Question  (oops! sorry at that time the people were still referred to as Eskimos).

The time saved on following Diana's story line would have allowed for more building of Jamie & Claire's daily life at Lallybroch & interaction with family & tenants...J & C's romps in the hay stacks & elsewhere. Even something small like Murtagh arriving to bring all Claire belongings & medicine box & medicines. Murtagh is never far from Jamie in case he is needed. Probably Ron has dispensed with another important character:?:
Well that's my first thoughts Exclamation Thoughts anyone Question Regards
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I totaly agree with you Ailman lass!!
It dissapointed me too!!
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by lochness on Mon 4 May - 14:29:07

My Canadien Friends and neighbors ( Ayrlassie,Aikman Lass & ???) every time  I try to spell neighbour your way my spell check says well you know Smile

Dear Ayrlassie & Aikman Lass I have been to lovely Vancouver and Bouchard Gardens but its been to long. What a lovely country you have both for its citizens and its landscapes. The Canuck's I thought would do better but it didn't work that way. Ayrlassie were you a Luongo fan?

Dear ConnieG,Ayrlassie,Aikman Lass,Scheepskat,Sonia and All its interesting is it not to see them play with Jamie's character. I thought it would bother me more but it really hasn't. I think its due to my faith in the book. If Jamie hadn't met Claire what would have become of him? Its a question I really never thought about till now because J&C are so ingrained in my consciousness. Would he have settled down or become a brigand. How much honor is there in the man? In Drums he spoke about being a lot like Stephen Bonnet but I am not remembering the quote. Perhaps someone here knows it. It was a conversation with Claire. I do believe that Claire is Jamie's anchor. Without her who knows what would have happened. Further thoughts and speculation?
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by ayrlassie on Mon 4 May - 15:46:39

lochness wrote:

Dear ConnieG,Ayrlassie,Aikman Lass,Scheepskat,Sonia and All its interesting is it not to see them play with Jamie's character. I thought it would bother me more but it really hasn't. I think its due to my faith in the book. If Jamie hadn't met Claire what would have become of him? Its a question I really never thought about till now because J&C are so ingrained in my consciousness. Would he have settled down or become a brigand. How much honor is there in the man? In Drums he spoke about being a lot like Stephen Bonnet but I am not remembering the quote. Perhaps someone here knows it. It was a conversation with Claire. I do believe that Claire is Jamie's anchor. Without her who knows what would have happened. Further thoughts and speculation?

Dear lochness,

Well, like you I've never pondered what Jamie would have done if Claire had not entered his life (why would I?) - it's not something I can wrap my head around....unthinkable!  I tried to find the conversation in DOA about Bonnet but gave up.....if memory serves I think the gist of it was that both Jamie and Bonnet were capable of violence but Jamie is at heart an honourable man and Bonnet isn't.....or something like that.

And yes, I was a huge Luongo fan, very sorry to see him go.

For anyone that's interested - here is a link to re-cap of the episode:

http://bethwesson.com/2015/05/04/1-1-2-how-math-made-me-love-outlander-starz-episode-13/

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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by lochness on Mon 4 May - 17:40:37

Jamie would have done if Claire had not entered his life (why would I?)

Dear Ayrlassie exactly. When you come to think about it from my male perspective our women being the anchor and center of our universe is not unusual.  Jaime without Claire is rather unthinkable its like a BLT w/o the Bacon or maybe the Tomato;)
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by Teasle11 on Mon 4 May - 18:14:30

I, for one, would have liked more Jamie and Claire (who wouldn't) but only because I'm not ready yet for the rapid descent into hell that's coming. I watched episode 6 with my hands on either side of my head like a demented Edvard Munch painting. I was even behind a blanket for the last episode, the foreshadowing was killing me. However, I'm really enjoying the show, it's the most excited I've been for a TV show ever!!!! I'm really enjoying Sam Heughan as Jamie and I don't mind if they want to change it. DG sold the rights and we could have got something much much worse.
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by lochness on Mon 4 May - 18:28:30

Dear All Here is the first trailer for the next episode. Glad to see Murtagh in evidence on several scenes. Sonia I also posted this under "Clips & Trailers" as well and its on You Tube. Yeah. cheers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swyzZ2XMSa0&feature=youtu.be

Maybe just maybe were going to get the traveling show in Episode 114 "The Search" between Claire and Murtagh!  http://www.vulture.com/2015/05/outlander-claire-caitriona-balfe-on-playing-rape-scenes.html.

Interviewer:"It's not all sturm und drang. Without spoiling under what circumstances this happens, you sing in an upcoming episode".
Cait:"Yeah, they did it to me. [Laughs.] It was really fun, but I haven't seen it, so I don't know how it's going to sound at all, but very early on, we decided that Claire is singing not because she's a fantastic singer, but because she needs something, so it's a necessity rather than an episode of Glee! It's really a fantastic episode, and it's sort of sweet. I was nervous about doing it. Well, actually, I was terrified. Learning the song wasn't as hard as singing in public, but it ended up being a lot of fun".
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by lochness on Mon 4 May - 20:18:38

This was re-tweeted from Outlander TV News. Interesting prspective from Matt Roberts.

"show stands on its own A child has the same DNA as their parents but is an independent being Different but the same" :-{)>


Kind of gives legs to the argument of just enjoying the series as a stand alone instead of trying to compare it to its more famous parent.
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by soniaG on Mon 4 May - 20:36:22

Hello to you all ... Ayrlassie, Lochness, Aikmann Lass, Shagur, Teasle11, Misty Blue, connieg and so on .. Wink

I´ve already watched it and I will certainly rewatch it one more time .. I will say a few things and then I don´t know if I am going to discuss this episode more en detail. Maybe I even stay away from discussing it at all .. I don´t know yet.

However I do think I did find a way to cope with all the changes, historical inconsistencies - thank you by the way dear Aikman Lass for letting us know what task the WATCH really had!

This time and I do think the next times I just read various reviews and recaps before seeing the show .. ! So I did exactly know what was coming .. followed the CompuServe discussion where they talked long before about this comment of Ron .. and what Jamie would have probably done when Claire would have not appeared ... Wink !

And there (CompuServe Forum) - by the way - some commented with a good quote of one of the books where Jamie compares themselves with Steffen Bonnet and someone said that Jamie always tended to think the worse of him when in doubt and that is usually not true .. Wink And one thing Ron seems really not to be aware of it that is the fact that  .. Jamie was not a real criminal after Wentworrt or before .. BJR made him one .. Jamie was accused of things he didn´t even do and in the course he tried to defend himself  .. ! He has to flee in order to survive the general pursuit and the special pursuit of BJR  .. Don´t let us forget this ..

I do think I do have understood how Ron is ticking .. he wants to make us (the booklovers) to question all kind of events/acts of the main characters, he want to let us see other POV as much as possible, he wants to bring new aspects into this show, he wants to make his wife happy, he wants to surprise the book fans and speculate about things we book lovers would not dream or ask about it because the overall story is already so complex to have a lifetime space for speculation and to understand all the events ... and historical background ..

And I have the feeling he does for all and forever interprets Jamie differently than most of us here .. ! It is a show for entertainment, give people the possibility to forget their life problems for awhile and earning as much money as possible .. !!! It is not a historical documentation and Ron is not Scot, maybe very much in love with Europe as an American .. but for my taste only on the surface !

After expressing this all .. ( I am sorry to have ranted to much about it .. and I don´t want to offend anyone but I am really not on good terms with the producer)

.. I want to say .. this episode I did enjoy the many rooms of their Lallybroch, the clothes, the scenery! And I did find Sam actings very believeable. Very well indeed in some scenes. Better than before .. Wink And Jenny´s acting was very good .. too! But I really would have preferred a more humoric story line with emphasis of all the bondings taking place .. (Claire with Lallybroch, Jenny, Ian, Jamie with his tenants, finding his footing again) with the betrayal from McNab as a shock at the end .. Wink

The Horrocks guy I just find da*n unattractive. His storyline was enlarged because Ron and his crew was so mesmerized from his acting and wanted him there more in this story .. !  Really? I wasn´t convinced at all ..

But this episode was much better for me to watch the one from last week and I am looking forward for the next one somehow because we see Rupert and Murtagh again and for sure Dougal. And some humor .. because since J&C left Leoch the show is lacking of humor .. it is all the time life and death danger .. Wink and with these old character we may get some humor back?

That is is .. Wink

P.S. I am fearing we don´t get an overall happy end .. the last episode will have flashback from Wentworth!


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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by lochness on Mon 4 May - 21:10:25

he wants to make us (the booklovers) to question all kind of events/acts of the main characters, he want to let us see other POV as much as possible, he wants to bring new aspects into this show, he wants to make his wife happy, he wants to surprise the book fans and speculate about things we book lovers would not dream or ask about

Dear Sonia why yes he does and  each of us has to draw a line somewhere that marks how far were willing to let him take that license. For me it begins and ends with J&C. As long as Ron honors that I can and will permit him to investigate aspects of this story that may not have been disclosed in the book. I had problems with the ring,Legohaire and the hurried scenes through the stones but IMO he has staid true to J&C. That is all that matters. That is all that is important and always has been. I am ok with a different POV as long as it comes back to J&C and their relationship. I can permit a lot of monkey business for the chance to see J&C on a TV screen and their love for each other. I have been so bonded to this via the book and my own sweetheart that I can permit him the other stuff even the inaccuracies. Speaking of that we need to realize this is a period piece about a 1945 combat nurse time traveling 200 years through a stone(s). Thats just a vehicle to get her to Jamie. Thank goodness they are not star crossed lovers at least the second go around.They are mean't to love each other no matter what. Thats the important thing and what we all can take from it.


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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by Shagur on Mon 4 May - 21:15:13

Just watched it the second time. WOW, what a great episode – I love it!

My favorite scene is Jamie telling MacQuarrie about killing Horrocks. He´s self confident, he´s the leader he´s a man who likes to take risks, being a bit of a card/poker player. He admits killing a man who threatened his family, but that is his, Jamies, law, his justice. It´s also his justice or honor that he joins the watch for one time because they are lacking the one man he killed. For me, that´s the Jamie we know from the books.
Also the scene when he talks to Ian after killing Horrocks is pure Jamie.
Jamies face when one of the men puts his feet on the dinner-table.

Also love Jenny. Favorite lines, „We don´t mind her englishness so much“ and „Just do what I say, Claire“ whe she´s in labour.
To me Lauras acting is much more convincing than Caits acting; as she auditioned for the part of Claire, I cannot stop thinking how she would portray Claire, had she been cast. And she´s got the right size, too.

Loved Sams acting in this ep. very much. To me, tv-Jamie is book Jamie (even if he behaves different to the books in some scenes, due to the writing and directing).
Cait has some scenes where she is convincing (I like her telling Jamie about being barren), but sometimes her portrayal of Claire does not satisfy me.
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by lochness on Mon 4 May - 21:23:41

To me Lauras acting is much more convincing than Caits acting; as she auditioned for the part of Claire, I cannot stop thinking how she would portray Claire, had she been cast. And she´s got the right size, too.

Dear Shagur thats an interesting perspective. However as a guy I must tell you for me its Cait hands down on all fronts. Wink
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by Shagur on Mon 4 May - 21:32:00

lochness wrote:
I can permit a lot of monkey business for the chance to see J&C on a TV screen and their love for each other.
notalone

Dear Sonia,
to be honest, I´ve stopped listening to Rons podcasts … I just want to enjoy the series without his theories about Jamie.
I´ve never asked myself if Jamie would have joined the watch, the question never occured to me. I don´t mind Ron showing us a Jamie who might have been tempted to join the watch – I´m not thinking he would have done so, and I just forget Rons idea of it; it´s just a few seconds in the episode that I can ignore. (That´s my way of dealing with things in the series I dont´like; (but to be honest, I also skip some pages in Dianas books as well … don´t you all, too?))
As to the inconsistency, well as you said it´s a TV show not a historical documentation.
Btw, one cannot detect an abscess of a horse-hoofe by just looking at the hooves and remove the horseshoe. It´s inside, you have to squeeze with a stump gripper to find the location of the abscess (we´ve had horses for 20 years so I know…)

P.S. I am fearing we don´t get even a nice happy ending at the end .. the last episode we get flashback from Wentworth!

Yes, I´m also afraid ep. 16 will end with a cliffhanger…  But Please, NOOOOO
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by lochness on Mon 4 May - 22:34:59

(but to be honest, I also skip some pages in Dianas books as well … don´t you all, too?))

Dear Shagur I do skip pages but only to look ahead sometimes just to make sure my favorite characters survive. I then return back to that place and read every last word. What a Face
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by soniaG on Mon 4 May - 22:44:52

Dear Shagur,


Shagur wrote:

Dear Sonia,
to be honest, I´ve stopped listening to Rons podcasts … I just want to enjoy the series without his theories about Jamie.

Very clever .. I did this for this episode after 20 minutes! Best way probably although I was hoping to understand the tweaking this way better ..


I´ve never asked myself if Jamie would have joined the watch, the question never occured to me. I don´t mind Ron showing us a Jamie who might have been tempted to join the watch – I´m not thinking he would have done so, and I just forget Rons idea of it; it´s just a few seconds in the episode that I can ignore. (That´s my way of dealing with things in the series I dont´like;

GOOD! I am trying to do it this way ... Wink

but to be honest, I also skip some pages in Dianas books as well … don´t you all, too?

No, I am sorry .. I don´t skip it. I read it maybe sometimes a little faster. But usually I do read everything and with each reread it is more interesting and I am learning from the parts I don´t like so much. I can read Wentworth all ... but still struggeling with book 6 .. where Claire is raped and all the Malva things I still have really problems to stand .. but when I am rereading I read it or I do quit and come back another time .. Wink I only reread some books (mostly start where I did left the last time) til the end and then again from the beginning every 1 or 2 years.


Sending you lots of smile .. Wink
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by Aikman Lass on Tue 5 May - 0:20:55

lochness wrote:[b]not far back in the seventies & even early eighties there were still many people in the USA (our neighbours across the border) who actually thought once they crossed the border all of Canada had snow all year round..

Dear Aikman Lass you mean your not all intuit? Seriously in the early seventies I had an Optician who was a Canuck before it was a hockey team...We are all crazy hockey fans down here who even traveled to the Hockey Hall of Fame in Toronto when we were kids. I have been to many places in your lovely country and appreciate what amazing people you all are. On my wish list the Calgary Stampede. Love you all and thank goodness you are our neighbor. Smile

:hi:Hi lochness:  Thank you for the complements about Canada & our people. I've only been fortunate enough to see a few places in your country & love the people I met there. My trips took me to New Jersey, Delaware, Michigan and Arizona. Other trips were to the Middle East. My parents were Snowbirds & regularly spent part of their year in Florida spending time golfing & hanging out with their friends who were from all over the USA.

Hope no offense was taken in regard to my example about knowledge? There was no intent to cause offense so I do apologize. I know the same can apply to Canadians lack of accurate knowledge about our neighbours country across the border. Heck lots of fellow Canadians can't even answer simple questions about our country! Don't know if you have every watched one of our great comedians Rick Mercer, he made us laugh about peoples lack of knowledge both sides of the border. To me it's just about the importance of accurate knowledge being fed to us via media even in a story like Outlander. Glad you got to see the Hockey Hall of Fame, Canadians are pretty proud of their hockey history & famous hockey players.

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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by lochness on Tue 5 May - 1:39:51

Hope no offense was taken in regard to my example about knowledge?

Dear Aikman Lass no offense was taken. Glad you got to spend sometime in the US with your parents. Your travels to the Middle East must have shown you a different view compared to here in North America. I find that the more I travel the more open minded I am. It has a very positive effect that way when you meet other people from  different cultures and backgrounds.


but still struggeling with book 6 .. where Claire is raped and all the Malva things I still have really problems to stand
Dear Sonia I am on that one right now! shocked
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by Aikman Lass on Tue 5 May - 3:49:23

lochness wrote:
I find that the more I travel the more open minded I am. It has a very positive effect that way when you meet other people from  different cultures and backgrounds.

Smile Hi lochness: So relieved!  Your are so right about the benefits of visiting other countries. It is too bad that so many people in life don't get the chance to gain from such experiences. With my first trip I liked the people & way of life so much I wanted to go home pack & move back to Beit Jala, West Bank (small village that is exactly beside Bethlehem). Second trip I was determined to move to a very old town called Ma'loula in Syria. Sadly my husband quashed my dreams.

but still struggeling with book 6 .. where Claire is raped and all the Malva things I still have really problems to stand
Dear Sonia I am on that one right now! shocked

soniaG & lochness ....probably not relevant to what your struggling with in that book but hope you don't mind own my thoughts here?  I myself have a discomfort with material like this....the sad truth is rapes and incest have always been with us since people populated the earth...what's even sadder is I don't see any end to this horror that is perpetrated everyday & everywhere in the world.

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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by Aikman Lass on Tue 5 May - 4:32:00

Scheepskat wrote:
Aikman Lass wrote:hello there Hello Everyone:
Oh Hell! Here I go again! "Odd man out!"


I totaly agree with you Ailman lass!!
It dissapointed me too!!

 Hello Scheepskat:
Thanks for your comments!  very happy  I have to admit I get carried away with my rants but I do think it is so wrong for Ron to keep making such unacceptable & unnecessary changes to the storyline and characters,  plus I like accuracy with actual real life & historical details. I can't say the TV show isn't good entertainment that keeps viewers riveted to their seats but to me the Outlander book has all the great qualities that would have made an excellent show. This last episode we saw was so far off the story and my guess is by the time the last episode for the season airs none of us will recognize Outlander. sad Let us know what you think of the next episode.
Thanks again.
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by Shagur on Tue 5 May - 7:35:58

[quote="lochness
Dear Shagur I do skip pages but only to look ahead sometimes just to make sure my favorite characters survive. I then return back to that place and read every last word. [/quote]
Sonia : No, I am sorry .. I don´t skip it. I read it maybe sometimes a little faster. But usually I do read everything and with each reread it is more interesting and I am learning from the parts I don´t like so much.[/quote]

Dear Lochness and Sonia, about the skipping of pages:
for the first or second time I read a book, I read all the pages, but when I re-read them again, there is some stuff I read very fast or skip one or two pages. Not in book one, but beginning with DIA, the political stuff in Paris. Or in Voyager – I really cannot read the scene at the slavemarket, the burning of the dead slaves bodies. I´m feeling sick when I just think about that half page of the book and no, I certainly will not read it again, it´s enough for me to know what is written there. Or the details of the battles in America in the later books (Claire being on board of the ship with governor Martin…) to be honest, I want to read about Jamie & Claire, and such details as how many cannons were fired in a battle… well, I call it “selective reading” Smile
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by lochness on Tue 5 May - 14:10:52

.the sad truth is rapes and incest have always been with us since people populated the earth...what's even sadder is I don't see any end to this horror that is perpetrated everyday & everywhere in the world.

Dear Aikman Lass I appreciate your thoughts. This is very personal with my wife and I as she barely avoided being raped after we were married. Thank goodness for her clear thinking, a whistle and her fighting spirit! After this episode she became especially conscious of her environment and not putting herself in that position if at all possible again. Its a shame it has to work that way but it does.It does appear that rape may be systemic to the human condition given its prevalence but one wonders. Is this a "male" problem? Is it a "parenting" problem?. Is it a "genetic" predisposition? All valid I believe and worthy of consideration. I am not that bright and don't have any answers for you. It is for sure a great injustice done to one gender predominantly. Being familiar with the Middle East I wonder if you could comment on the subjugation of women in many cultures in that region of the world and how you handle that. I am making an assumption that you and your husband like Claire and Jaime decided early on for a much different relationship. My wife and  are very progressive on women's rights and being exposed to cultures that treat women in that fashion gets our attention and concerns.
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by Aikman Lass on Tue 5 May - 17:37:08

Hi lochness:
I beg to differ your comments on the Forum are that of an intelligent quick-witted progressive thinker. You hit on a number of probably causative factors for rape & incest...mustn't forget pedophilia victims also. How about religious & cultural strictures or village leaders/elders using it as punishment? Many possible reasons.
My experience a little bit worse than your wife & sadly we all live with that underlying fear & do become extremely conscious & cautious of everything around us when away from a safe place 'home'.

Marriage was 50-50 but family & culture often intervene so now we are more like 30-70 guess who has the biggest say. I'm fairly easy with cultural mores. It is cultural because my husband is a Christian Arab. Many do have a male dominance attitude in some ways...reasons??

Although this conversation evolved from the topics you & soniaG are presently reading about I don't think we can actually go delving into the 'subjugation of women' in other parts of the world......ayrlassie & I also commented on soniaGs posting that evolved into comments on 'insidious type of war' (ISIS)...these topics are massive subjects & not easily put into a few sentences. Super interesting subjects but they are far & away from the theme & purpose of the Outlander Forum so we don't want Logo1960 slapping our hands....even if you are a much loved 'Smoothie'. I might not be so fortunate as you and I do enjoy this forum so much.

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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by lochness on Tue 5 May - 18:03:00

My experience a little bit worse than your wife & sadly we all live with that underlying fear & do become extremely conscious & cautious of everything around us when away from a safe place 'home'.

Oh Aikman Lass I am so sorry.......I will honor your good judgement and save this for another time and place.
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Wee Hamish

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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by Pia on Tue 5 May - 19:57:42

Lot's of monkey business and a rather alternative story line, so I am still processing my opinion on this episode

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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

Post by lochness on Tue 5 May - 21:03:25

Pia wrote:Lot's of monkey business and a rather alternative story line, so I am still processing my opinion on this episode

Dear Pia plenty of monkey business indeed Wink

What are the Forum Ladies opinions on the birthing scenes?
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Re: General Chat for Episode 13.

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