General Chat episode 12

Page 2 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by Shagur on Tue 28 Apr - 19:55:38

First of all, dear Sonia, I´m very sorry for you and hope you can go on with your recovery. Be strong!  hug

As to your question about our thoughts about the flashbacks: to my mind they were necessary, these scenes are so important to the story, they are Jamies history, they are with him every single day. Yes, Jamies flogging itself could have have been shown a few seconds shorter, but not left out. And he himself had to tell Claire about it even if she has been told about it already by BJR. And they have to show why it is not so easy for Jamie to come back to Lallybroch. I don´t like watching the flogging but I do not skip the scenes. And I certainly do not re-watch them as I do with e.g. drunken Jamie. And as episode 6 was shown six month ago, the non-book readers have to be reminded of it, too.

I watched ep. 12 for the second time today and I have to admit now that it did not hit me. And I feel sad to admit that I am disappointed. The episode for itself, I liked it. I liked nearly all the scenes, liked the acting. Loved the drunken and hangover Jamie (Did you notice it was a very long scene without cuts, filmed in only one sequence? Most scenes are filmed with different camera-angles but not this one). Fine acting, Jamie telling Claire about BJR. I did not like seeing "Jack junior" but I´m ok with it as I can see the reason why they showed it. Jenny with BJR. Jenny the older sister with Jamie.

But the most important scene was wrong: Claire finally telling Jamie „I love you“ . What the ... did the writers think they´re doing??? (sorry about this word, I´m very emotional…)  From the beginning we could see Jamies love for Claire growing, his voiceover in ep.9 telling us about loving her. Claire had a lot of voiceover about her general feelings, her love to Frank, about … lots of things whatever. But nothing about her feelings for Jamie. After her decision to stay with Jamie (they did not even show or tell us in the series if it really was a decision or if she just could not go back) and the short re-union at the end of ep.10 I really expected an explanation of Claire. Telling Jamie why she stayed, or at least a voiceover. I did not complain about the last episode concentrating to much on the witch-trial and spending too little time with J&C,  I did not mind the „on your feet soldier take me home to L.“ because I trusted Ron & the writers that they would give us a declaration from Claire. Show us her feelings. But that chance was missed. Two or three lines would have been enough. No matter if they did it at the beginning of the episode on the ride to Lallybroch (Claire telling Jamie about the hot bath is similar easy as the talking about aeroplanes ) or at the end. Just a „I love you. Thats why I stayed , I couldnt live without you“ .  Jamies telling her the main reason was ok for me; a bit of joking but serious enough. Nice bodylanguage. But Claires only three words „ILY“? And, sorry, I felt no emotion from her! Bad writing, bad directing, bad acting. Regarding the series only I really cannot see Claire loving Jamie.

The second scene I did not like was Claire telling Jamie off. „You can talk when I am finished“, her voice like a fury instead of insistent or explanatory. It´s not the words per se but her deliverance or the directing.

So, 95% of the episode were fine and I liked it; but the accumulation of the last episodes missing developement of Claires love for Jamie ... the whole series begins to feel wrong for me as I am feeling today and I really hope I will recover from this emotion … I really try to seperate the series from the books and I think most of the time that works. I always tried to find out and understand the reason why they changed things, didn´t bother about the ring, Leery-scene, …  but: as they absolutely miss the connection between Jamie and Claire it´s becoming more and more just an adventure-series, not the big love story I have fallen in love with more than 20 years ago. I am now at that point some of you have already been some episodes ago…   sad
avatar
Shagur
Wee Hamish

Posts : 137
Join date : 2014-08-28
Location : Austria

Back to top Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by lochness on Tue 28 Apr - 20:29:02

but: as they absolutely miss the connection between Jamie and Claire it´s becoming more and more just an adventure-series

Dear Shagur I couldn't have said it better! I wonder what this portends for the entire series? I feel that it won't go any longer than Drums before it ends. Without that strong and enduring love between J&C there is not enough story line otherwise to sustain it. I will however be happy to watch all these seasons and be grateful for getting anything at all on screen.
avatar
lochness
Wee Hamish

Posts : 245
Join date : 2014-11-25

Back to top Go down

Nae Granny McNab

Post by Katy D on Tue 28 Apr - 20:57:58

OutlanderTVSeries wrote:I totally agree with Bibolina.

Especially the relationship (and the fight!) between Jamie & Jenny was not worked out well. But maybe this is not so "important" for the show. I also missed Granny MacNab. Don't know why they have made this scene with Jenny instead of her.

And I think that it is a shame, that nobody knows who Ian really is (to Jamie).


Think they needed to make sure Jenny saw Jamie's scars...so no Granny McNab
avatar
Katy D
Wee Jamie

Posts : 19
Join date : 2014-08-26
Location : Scotland

Back to top Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by Shagur on Tue 28 Apr - 21:44:50

Dear lochness,

I think that we are all united in some kind of fear that they are doing things wrong, that they are changing the original story too much and therefore loosing viewers (non-book readers who cannot comprehend the love story or dissapointed book fans) and further on we would not have season eight, nine, (ten?)

That´s why I´m so sad I cannot see Claire being in love… Still, I LOVE the series, I´m just a bit frustrated at the moment …
avatar
Shagur
Wee Hamish

Posts : 137
Join date : 2014-08-28
Location : Austria

Back to top Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by lochness on Tue 28 Apr - 21:58:41

I think that we are all united in some kind of fear that they are doing things wrong, that they are changing the original story too much and therefore loosing viewers

Dear Shagur can you imagine what kind of damage they might end up doing to the parting scene in DIA or the reunion in Voyager? I can see it now we wanted to show Dougal and Jaime fighting rather then spending enough time when J&C part. Or we needed to show more of the brothel scene's rather then dwelling on Jaime and Claire's reunion scene at the print house. How can you have much confidence after watching what they have done so far?
avatar
lochness
Wee Hamish

Posts : 245
Join date : 2014-11-25

Back to top Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by soniaG on Tue 28 Apr - 21:59:03

Dear Lochness and dear Shagur,

Very much thank you for your empathy .. big hug to you both! Wink Glad for all you have said to me! Helps me a lot to go on with my digesting process .. Wink

By the way I am starting to feeling slithly better  Smile and do hope it stays so ..

“as they absolutely miss the connection between Jamie and Claire it´s becoming more and more just an adventure-series, not the big love story I have fallen in love with more than 20 years ago.” (Shagur)

I second this!!!

Now more en detail:

Lochness, I will answer directly in your text .. you said it so well ..

lochness wrote: ..  and perhaps thats as it should be but this is a violent story book or TV series. The difference for me is that in the book I have a way of deflecting the violence.

YES I am doing this there, too!! Wink

That way is through the love of J&C for each other. It is their growing love and the bond that is developing in the story that gets me past the violence. In the TV series that relationship between J&C is very one dimensional lacking proper development.

OH damn it! Yes .. Wink

Its a choice of this TV version and its producer to handle the story in this fashion and the result is there is not much here to deflect the violence. Jaime and Claire in the TV version are not well developed and perhaps thats as a result of the medium itself. Not sure but I do know we all are left with this violence and nothing to wash it down with and out of our system.

And yes again!!! Wink .

Yeah, I am wondering how others are digesting seeing this TV show. I am right now not going to recommend anybody else to this TV show when it is starting in May in Germany. We have had now episode after episode filled with rape attempts and violence .. where are the good moments to enjoy it?


-------------------


My dear Shagur,

I can accept all you stated regarding the violent scenes, all your argumentations. Thank you so much for taking your time to answer my posed question here!

Shagur wrote:
But the most important scene was wrong: Claire finally telling Jamie „I love you“ . What the... did the writers think they´re doing??? (sorry about this word, I´m very emotional…)  

YOU have nothing to sorry .. I feel exactly like you!!

From the beginning we could see Jamies love for Claire growing, his voiceover in ep.9 telling us about loving her. Claire had a lot of voiceover about her general feelings, her love to Frank, about … lots of things whatever. But nothing about her feelings for Jamie. After her decision to stay with Jamie (they did not even show or tell us in the series if it really was a decision or if she just could not go back) and the short re-union at the end of ep.10 I really expected an explanation of Claire.

So YES again to this!!

Telling Jamie why she stayed, or at least a voiceover. ...

Show us her feelings. But that chance was missed. Two or three lines would have been enough. No matter if they did it at the beginning of the episode on the ride to Lallybroch (Claire telling Jamie about the hot bath is similar easy as the talking about aeroplanes ) or at the end. Just a „I love you. Thats why I stayed , I couldnt live without you“ .  Jamies telling her the main reason was ok for me; a bit of joking but serious enough. ..  But Claires only three words „ILY“? And, sorry, I felt no emotion from her! Bad writing, bad directing, bad acting.

I am second this with every beat of my heart!!!!!

Regarding the series only I really cannot see Claire loving Jamie.

The second scene I did not like was Claire telling Jamie off. „You can talk when I am finished“, her voice like a fury instead of insistent or explanatory. It´s not the words per se but her deliverance or the directing.

I did not like this scene, too. Claire woud do this in a much more subtle way .. Wink

but: I am now at that point some of you have already been some episodes ago…   sad

I am sorry for you, dear Shagur! You have my deepest empathy ..

Sending you a big hug ...  hug


Thanks again for your answer, you two!!
avatar
soniaG
Jenny

Posts : 2475
Join date : 2014-09-01
Location : Germany

Back to top Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by castlerock on Tue 28 Apr - 22:37:51

OutlanderTVSeries wrote:I totally agree with Bibolina.

Especially the relationship (and the fight!) between Jamie & Jenny was not worked out well. But maybe this is not so "important" for the show. I also missed Granny MacNab. Don't know why they have made this scene with Jenny instead of her.

And I think that it is a shame, that nobody knows who Ian really is (to Jamie).


I second that….but anyway like the episode
avatar
castlerock
Wee Hamish

Posts : 340
Join date : 2014-08-26
Age : 50
Location : North Rhine Westphalia, Germany

Back to top Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by soniaG on Tue 28 Apr - 22:41:51

Dear all,

I have already mentioned that Jamie never had had behaved like he did regarding the bread to the housekeeper/cook Mrs. Crook and ..

.. now Diana confirmed that!!!

Here is her comment from CompuServe:

" (That said, I personally don't think Jamie would have been uncivil to Mrs. Crook, though he _would_ have made inquiries into the state of the bread, as something's plainly not right.)
--Diana  "


Link for those who want to know the source:

Pls click me!

Yeah!!! excited happy
avatar
soniaG
Jenny

Posts : 2475
Join date : 2014-09-01
Location : Germany

Back to top Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by lochness on Tue 28 Apr - 22:47:14

I have already mentioned that Jamie never had had behaved like he did regarding the bread to the housekeeper/cook Mrs. Crook and ..

Dear Sonia I do so especially enjoy your insights! Congratulations on nailing that one!
avatar
lochness
Wee Hamish

Posts : 245
Join date : 2014-11-25

Back to top Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by Shagur on Wed 29 Apr - 11:39:44

I agree to you, Sonia and Lochness, book-Jamie would never have done so! I´d rather expect a funny comment about the bread and his hangover…
But I can “forgive” it in the series because it suits to the whole scene; he´s having a bad time – struggling to be the laird, having a huge hangover and Jenny just slammed the door into his face. It´s ok for TV-Jamie to do so and learn from it as well. I´ve accepted that TV Jamie is very different to book-Jamie, concerning his relationships he sometimes behaves more like a “normal-nowadays” 22 year old guy.  (You see, I´m getting positive again  very happy  )

One question to the development of the C&J love-story: I personally feel that Jamies love to Claire has been built up very good and is portrayed very visible. In contrast, Claires love to Jamie … I cant´see it.
Do you think that is (partly) due to the actors? Sam has got much more experience as an actor than Cait. So perhaps he discusses the development of his Jamie-character with the directors, he has got a good imagination how to bring the character alive, he decides a lot how to play Jamie and can influence the directors. Cait was a model with a bit of acting-experience, perhaps she does more or less what the directors tell her to do and has not so many ideas of her own?
Diana said in an interview that she often discusses/ tweets about  the books and the characters with Sam and sometimes with Tobias, but not with Cait as Cait did not talk/write to her about Claire.
What do you think ?
avatar
Shagur
Wee Hamish

Posts : 137
Join date : 2014-08-28
Location : Austria

Back to top Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by lochness on Wed 29 Apr - 14:33:36

Cait was a model with a bit of acting-experience, perhaps she does more or less what the directors tell her to do and has not so many ideas of her own?


Dear Shagur I am glad for your positiveness. To answer your most excellent question about Cait's acting abilities and whether they may be playing a part in her character's development and her relationship and love for Jaime I am sure it has had some effect but I believe the majority of the problems we are seeing here are in the TV script itself. In my opinion there have been precious few opportunities for this love to show on Claire's part  except for the Wedding and the episode that followed it. The encounters  with J&C recently have been filled with friction and thats been done on purpose. In episode 109 thats all we got until the last few moments. Episode 110 had little interaction between them except for that parting scene and in my opinion Cait did convince me of her feelings about being separated from Jaime. Here again we had a key sequence of Cait showing her displeasure at Jamie being a part of the duel which on a negative side did convince me this actress can do that very well. We have all been talking about 111 and how the production rushed through the stones sequence and beyond leaving us at Lallybroch. If you go to entertainment weekly (www.ew.com) they have a clip from episode 113 showing Claire saying goodbye to Jaime with some words and a kiss and I mean to tell you I don't think Cait missed that one. I got the message and the emotions and everything else meant't to be conveyed. So even though Cait is a still inexperienced actor I am not willing to blame the failure of Claire to communicate her love to Jamie as being acting ability. I think its all at the feet of the producers and screen writers.
avatar
lochness
Wee Hamish

Posts : 245
Join date : 2014-11-25

Back to top Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by Aikman Lass on Wed 29 Apr - 16:04:10

yuleya wrote:I felt sorry for this episode for Lallybroch was not at all as I had imagined it: I always saw Lallybroch as a "warm" place where you feel sheltered and comforted. However, viewing the episode, I thought of it as being rather cold and very big and the blue of the wall paintings further added to that impression.

hi:Hi yuleya: Like you feel it lacked the cosiness of home & hearth. I am an avid lover of ancient buildings & find all of them beautiful including this one which is actually 'Midhope Castle' but it just didn't fit our vision of the Lallybroch home. I also thought it too big for a not-so-powerful branch of the Fraser clan. Our negative feeling could also have something to do with it's visual appearance because Midhope is a derelict castle & it has lost a lot of it's beautiful exterior qualities due to lack of maintenance. Information states that the inside is literally a shell. This means all the interior home scenes were not filmed there. It sits on the Hopetoun Estate property (the scenes for Claire's private meeting with the Duke of Sandringham & Jamie's fight with the MacDonald').

Also, the focus of the episode really was on everything else but Claire's and Jamie's relationship; I for my part was a little bored on all the dialogues without something happening.

My personal thoughts....actually don't think there was a lot of focus on anything else either....all scenes were rushed through....the producers threw us a bone by showing finally a connection of love between Jamie & Claire....but virtually nothing of their new life living & interacting with family & tenants at Lallybroch.  This TV story has less and less connecting dots to tie the storyline together..at least in the way I view it. ( study )..if the producers were sticking closer to the written work I'd enjoy it as "Outlander" but now to me it's what I call a good 'period piece' show.

Regards
Aikman Lass



lochness wrote:
This was suppose to be the place where she and Jaime made memories that would keep her going during the twenty years of separation. The place that she would yearn for in her heart during the "cold" times with Frank. So far that hasn't been conveyed in the TV production.

Hi lochness:
You are so right about the 'memories'...settling in & living daily life at Lallybroch. Claire's fond connections to the individual tenants, growing love of a close loving family (previously only Uncle Lamb) and each individuals wonderful qualities, experiences of a hard but simple way of living, the strengthening of emotional & physical love between Jamie & Claire as they lived this new life.....all of this is missing from the Lallybroch episode.
All I took away from the episode was seeing a much to short fight, the Quarter Day and the Mill. All the important material is lost & if I assume correctly "The Watch" is now there so I can't see any way the producers could fill in the multitude of blanks...can you?
Regards
Aikman Lass

Aikman Lass
Wee Hamish

Posts : 198
Join date : 2014-09-01
Location : Ontario, Canada

Back to top Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by soniaG on Wed 29 Apr - 17:48:46

Dear Lochness, dear Shagur,

lochness wrote:I have already mentioned that Jamie never had had behaved like he did regarding the bread to the housekeeper/cook Mrs. Crook and ..

Dear Sonia I do so especially enjoy your insights! Congratulations on nailing that one!

Just thank you! Wink I must say I was very pleased to read the comment of Diana Gabaldon.

Ron is doing for sure a good job .. but sometimes I do think he looks at Jamie as a person which is not very far away from the one he was when he was young! That is my suspicion ... that for him .. it would be totally impossible to have such a young man behave like this .. Wink

But just assumptions ..

----------------------


Dear Shagur,

Shagur wrote:
One question to the development of the C&J love-story: I personally feel that Jamies love to Claire has been built up very good and is portrayed very visible.

I do agree to this very much .. Wink


1. In contrast, Claires love to Jamie … I cant´see it.  (... ) Do you think that is (partly) due to the actors?

2. Diana said in an interview that she often discusses/ tweets about  the books and the characters with Sam and sometimes with Tobias, but not with Cait as Cait did not talk/write to her about Claire.

To 1. Well, I don´t really know ... I am trying to recall how Claire is looking when she is in love with Frank in the first episodes .. there I had never the feeling she was really in love with him .. more than she made most somehow fun about him ... and that she was seeking his physical nearness ..

In all the fighting scene she is really really great .. but the display of love, devotion, passion .. is not coming over yet - for me as much as it is via Jamie! But It could be the fact also, that there is really no building up of the increasing attraction and falling in love with him.. and we don´t have any voice over any more which I am missing from her .. I did it like it very much! And Claire is a very thinking person ... very science orientated .. she is not someone who recite poems or saying to declare her love ..

To 2. I wouldn´t assume that there is no talk between the both. But Cat confessed in some of the interview that she is also headstrong and I could imagine that she is proud too and she would never approach DG often for asking such minor details .. but this is only a guess .. Wink


Claire is someone who is more showing her love through her inner thoughts, I often thought myself. She is not someone who uses big words or by using any gestures. That is more Jamie´s habit and style! And strength as she often mentioned through the series .. Wink


----------------------


Dear all,

I am just started rereading the English version (for the first time) of Dragonfly in Amber! To revitalise my love for the books ... strangely I am thinking some times .. well, what would probably Ron M. choose to show on screen. Wink

Overall I did notice .. that there is a scene from Wentworth .. Jamie having a bad dream .. oh, oh! I suppose they will a great deal of all the nasty Wentworth torture scenes ..

And there is so much humor of Jamie .. I have to laugh (and this feels so good) and I find out .. I still love the book saga .. sunny flower sunny
avatar
soniaG
Jenny

Posts : 2475
Join date : 2014-09-01
Location : Germany

Back to top Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by Aikman Lass on Wed 29 Apr - 18:32:01

Jenny had to see Jamie's back to move the story along. It was obviously the best, quickest and possibly the only, opportunity for him to be topless in front of her. That's my view anyway.

:hi:Teasle11: I also really missed having Mrs. McNab in the Mill scene. (book) in the drawing room as fighting & screaming ebbed away to given apologizes Jennie demanded that Jamie remove his shirt & he complied knowing Jennie's personality (Fraser stubbornness) she would have forcefully removed it anyway. Left as is in the story producers could have given us Mrs. McNab.

And Terry has said the red drawers were not appropriate for the time, not that it matters to me. They would have had comedic value but the flapping shirt tails were a nice visual.[/quote]

Ahhh!.. the enticing low drooping red flannel drawers covered in many patches of different colors & textures.....a nice visual zing to the scene.  Being curious about Terry's reasoning of not being appropriate to the times I did some research......Now I beg to differ with her justification!! There were at least two different types of flannel material produced in the late far flung centuries...in Wales as far back as 16th C, France (flanelle) early as 17th C, Germany (flanell) as early as 18th C. with one type made from wool and the other flannel made from Scots pine fibres.....as to colour - red dye was achieved using dried dead insects...brought back by Spanish conquistadors to Spain in 17th C maybe even sooner...so yes it appears there was a brighter red than previous ones made from plant life...Trade of goods allowed for dyes, garments, materials and many other goods to reach even Scotland....so quite possible for Jamie's father to have red flannel drawers....perhaps drawers from a trader or the drawers were made from scraps of worn out clothing....Scots have always been known for their thriftiness!
I presume picture posting is not for here so I will post a piece of art work a painting of a Scottish lady in a red dress dating 1706 as proof of red dyed material.
Just my opinion but I think Terry missed the boat and should have done a little bit more research. My vision of Jamie's drawers slowly wafted off his hips & legs as he is diving down to unclog the wheel is much more tantalizing.
Regards
Aikman Lass

Aikman Lass
Wee Hamish

Posts : 198
Join date : 2014-09-01
Location : Ontario, Canada

Back to top Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by lochness on Wed 29 Apr - 19:39:51

Can You?

Dear Aikman Lass I think in the next two episodes we are going to at the least see a lot of female bonding between Jenny and Claire. I have heard Jenny will have the baby and Claire will be there for her. So yes in this respect I think the production will start to get Lallybroch right for Claire. I am not yet sure how the search episode may play out and whether Jenny will indeed participate in it but if she does even for a little bit we will have at least of a few of those memories for Claire. Heres hoping it plays out that way this week and next.

I still love the book saga!

Dear Sonia great to hear and i do as well. In fact even more so now because what is lacking in the production makes me so glad I have read the books. If I had not I would still be wondering why Claire chose to stay instead of going back to Frank. Didn't the stones work? Wink
avatar
lochness
Wee Hamish

Posts : 245
Join date : 2014-11-25

Back to top Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by Aikman Lass on Wed 29 Apr - 21:30:34

soniaG quote  -  Yeah, I am wondering how others are digesting seeing this TV show. I am right now not going to recommend anybody else to this TV show when it is starting in May in Germany. We have had now episode after episode filled with rape attempts and violence .. where are the good moments to enjoy it?

:hi:Hi soniaG:
I have read a lot of opinions on other sites, reviews, etc. and I am starting to notice that many are not always so happy with what is happening in certain scenes and book readers like us are even more unhappy with the Ron's production.
soniaG 'Great minds think alike'!!  Originally I was telling every one I knew about the Outlander series coming to TV & how great it will be. Once I caught a few shows I never opened my mouth again. Oh sure...I'd give my opinion if asked about the show. I have a nice older (grannie) Scottish lady I chat with all the time & we both like reading.  Many times I suggested Diana's books but she never bothered.  A few months ago Phyllis got so excited about one show she caught on TV 'Outlander' (I think - episode 4) & asked if I knew about it. I told her the show was great for scenery, acting, costumes & that she would probably find the show exciting but to bear in mind that a lot of content was missing. I reminded her about the books again & said that the original story line is the best so she has been buying & reading the books and loves them. I will always promote only the books in future. I think the books are the truly most fulfilling experience. I've read my books so many times but since this show started I am rereading again. Don't want the story in my head to become distorted with the show's messes.
Regards
Aikman Lass

Aikman Lass
Wee Hamish

Posts : 198
Join date : 2014-09-01
Location : Ontario, Canada

Back to top Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by lochness on Wed 29 Apr - 22:19:12

Dear Aikman Lass & Sonia

Is it fair that we expect this production to be the caliber of the books? I wonder if I have been expecting much to much from Ron and company. For me the tipping point was episode 111 and expectations of the Witch trial and what would follow. An experience that for me will always be one of my best moments in fiction ever in a lifetime of reading. Is it fair then to expect anything to be able to live up to that? Just asking.
avatar
lochness
Wee Hamish

Posts : 245
Join date : 2014-11-25

Back to top Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by soniaG on Wed 29 Apr - 23:22:53

Dear Lochness,

if you are asking me about fairness .. ? This is an almost philosophical question ...

But my answer can only be .. no and yes at the same time! Not fair because we are all different people and Ron may have some other opinions and thoughts about the book story. Not fair because each of one of us reacts differently while reading and digesting the book story.
Not fair because not only Ron is producing this show but a bunch of people and the most overall ruling factor is time and budget = money!

Yes - it is fair to have great expectations because DG told us before how convinced she is from his plans. Again and again. Yes - it is fair because we were being told that they know the books, each member of the crew have been asked to read the book (the first one or all the books I am wondering) before coming to the production team.
Yes - it is fair because Ron told us again and agian that he want to stay as much as possible to true to the books and please the fans. That he can´t afford it to ruin things for the longtime fans/or better the book for his wife.

The question can´t be answered either with yes or no because I suppose the question is wrong .. Wink .. or better said .. I suggest we need another approach ..

How high would be the likelihood that our very own imaginations/exspectation would be meet or that our own imagination would match the one of all the others who are reading the books or the ones of the production team? How high would  be the percentage of that what we want so desperately to see there will be likely there?


That would be the more realistic way of approach ... in my opinion! Nevertheless your question of fairness is not a bad one .. Wink
avatar
soniaG
Jenny

Posts : 2475
Join date : 2014-09-01
Location : Germany

Back to top Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by ayrlassie on Thu 30 Apr - 0:52:08

Dear Sonia, lochness and Aikman Lass,

I've read all of your posts and can't begin to respond to them all, hence I haven't, because I agree and disagree - not with your points of view or opinions, they are yours and I value them but because, once again I'm a bit of a fence-sitter! lol! This probably doesn't make sense, but there it is! Hoping against hope that all will be well!  I will continue to watch the series but will always go back to the beloved DG books, my first love!  

Here is a video link that I think you'll all enjoy....so, enjoy!  All the upbeat moments of the series....oh geez, what an eternal optimist I am....gag!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/61kqmz7zu5q5mxx/Lay%20Me%20Down%20S.mp4?dl=0

***_________________***
Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. flower
avatar
ayrlassie
Moderator

Posts : 770
Join date : 2014-08-25
Age : 68
Location : Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Back to top Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by Aikman Lass on Thu 30 Apr - 0:58:30

lochness wrote:Dear Aikman Lass & Sonia
Is it fair that we expect this production to be the caliber of the books? I wonder if I have been expecting much to much from Ron and company. For me the tipping point was episode 111 and expectations of the Witch trial and what would follow. An experience that for me will always be one of my best moments in fiction ever in a lifetime of reading. Is it fair then to expect anything to be able to live up to that? Just asking.

Feasgar Math lochness:
Personally I think we & all other people of like minds have a right to expect better of movie and TV production  whether material be fiction or non-fiction. So much major damage to this story now & I can't think Diana is too pleased but she has no say (supposedly sold the rights)....so she will probably have to be magnanimous towards Ron & just keep quiet, grin and bear it.

I too have many parts in the book that are so special & the witch trials is one of them. True this 1st book Diana did a few minor bloopers but the overall work is not only interesting but has all wonderful ingredients of rich romance, gripping drama, great character building, history, subtle but powerful descriptions, WHOA! getting carried away here but the list could go on. If Ron couldn't or wouldn't do proper justice to the story he should have found a different book to play with. I think with all the pomp & glitzy prior to the show being air we should have known it was more about Ron's creation (we have the example of the wedding ring change to match his & Terry's relationship/engagement). When I first saw interviews I kept asking myself why is the producer wearing a kilt?? Just like soniaG I hate that the show has become only about violence, killing, rapes and too much sexual & nudity exposure when there is so much more greatness in this book. But I've said it before this is all about rating, awards, praise, etc. Ron should be spending a lot of time reading comments that are like ours (we are not a minor voice out there) so that maybe he can see the light and rethinks how he presents the rest of the book in future. Personally I think this whole show could have been an almost mirror image of the Outlander story and probably would have garnered Ron bigger accolades for achieving it. His lose and at the same time unfortunately our lose.  We the viewers have the right to expect more & better in this TV show but unfortunately we have no control. Sorry sorry such a run on comment to your easy questions. I talk too much.
At least we can be glad we have these good books to read. If we read a book more than once or twice (I'm starting on my fifth reading) it is a quality book. The show is a one time viewing and it's gone.

Regards
Aikman Lass


Aikman Lass
Wee Hamish

Posts : 198
Join date : 2014-09-01
Location : Ontario, Canada

Back to top Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by lochness on Thu 30 Apr - 1:38:06

Dear Aikman Lass,Sonia and Ayrlassie thank you for your responses. They are well thought out and I respect and agree with much of it.Even though I am not happy with whats been done with this production I have had moments where its definitely provided solace. The Wedding episode was extremely well done and the first episode not bad either. In fact I believe that I enjoyed the  eighth episode even when they reintroduced Frank into the story. I think it was done tastefully and in the spirit of Diana's work.  No matter what happens from here on out the TV production has made it possible for Diana to write to her hearts content on J&C and make a lot more money out of it. She is being paid 6 Million to write Book 9 and I have a feeling thats probably more then she received for all of the eight that preceded it. Does anyone know if thats true or not? This TV production has "greased" the wheels so to speak and should get us many more well written novels on J&C and others. Sure they may have happened anyway but with the extra cash DG is pocketing  it should cover all her expenses and then some. That Ladies is something to feel good about and so I think I shall.
avatar
lochness
Wee Hamish

Posts : 245
Join date : 2014-11-25

Back to top Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by Aikman Lass on Thu 30 Apr - 2:11:18

Hello lochness:

Thinking about Outlander & my thoughts on how to answer your deep thinking questions sort have left my answers lacking and rushed. Didn't help to have my four foster kitties nagging for supper which for them has to be at the same time every night & not a minute later (won't stop meowing until I'm in the kitchen doing my job)...sort of ruined my thought process. Now it's more like a rant.
Lovely SoniaG as usual had some really deep thought out answers, wish I could be a bit better at that myself. I think there are a lot of members who probably feel the same and I personally would enjoy hearing their thoughts in regard to your questions. I would say for the people who are shy to voice their honest opinions we are all friends here with different opinions but united on our love for Outlander. Everybody's thoughts can only make our journey through the show hopefully easier and more acceptable.

Regards
Aikman Lass

Aikman Lass
Wee Hamish

Posts : 198
Join date : 2014-09-01
Location : Ontario, Canada

Back to top Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by soniaG on Thu 30 Apr - 8:50:40

Dear Ayrlassie,

ayrlassie wrote:Dear Sonia, lochness and Aikman Lass,

I've read all of your posts and can't begin to respond to them all, hence I haven't, because I agree and disagree - not with your points of view or opinions, they are yours and I value them but because, once again I'm a bit of a fence-sitter! lol! This probably doesn't make sense, but there it is! Hoping against hope that all will be well!

that is all making perfectly sense!! I know you like most of it .. so just enjoy it! Good for you!

So great that you let us know you are still with us .. reading all of our ramplings, rants, arguments for and against it .. Wink

Thank you for your constant interest .. sometimes one need to sit on the fence ... to observe from the distance to get a better/the bigger picture! mex wave

P.S.: Can´t say anthing to the video .. it is constantly not working because too much traffic .. Wink
avatar
soniaG
Jenny

Posts : 2475
Join date : 2014-09-01
Location : Germany

Back to top Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by Misty Blue on Thu 30 Apr - 13:28:51

Dear All
I have been popping in here to read everyone's comment's. Like the lovely Norma (ayrlassie), I will always respect & consider people's own opinion's. I do not judge, & will never judge anybody for their feeling's or point of view. I strongly disagree with discrimination of any kind, (my own sister is profoundly disabled), therefore, I am constantly aware of this factor, & am grateful it gave me the ability growing up, to be open-minded on all accounts. As Aikman Lass so rightly pointed out this is a "friendly" forum - which is what makes it so wonderful!
The simple truth is I have had nothing to add, without contradicting myself, from previous comments. Following the optimism of my dear fellow Outlandion ayrlassie (Norma), who as I've said before, has been a voice of profundity & wisdom right from day one for me here on this forum. I have been able to now separate the book & series, & thus enjoy the series for it's own merits. I have come to terms with the fact, they will never be able to reproduce the book in it's entirety, so things will be added or taken away without my control. Nevertheless, I appreciate all your comments. You are all a diverse, fascinating, unique, interesting, entertaining, & individual bunch of people, & I thoroughly enjoy communicating with my fellow "OUTLANDIONS" on this most marvellous forum! Wink cheers
avatar
Misty Blue
Moderator

Posts : 795
Join date : 2014-08-27
Location : UK

Back to top Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by ayrlassie on Thu 30 Apr - 16:39:51

soniaG wrote:Dear Ayrlassie,

Can´t say anthing to the video .. it is constantly not working because too much traffic .. Wink

Sorry about the video Sonia mad Our lovely Diane4564 has posted it under Un-Interupted Jamie so you can watch it there mouth watering

Thank you for understanding about my 'fence sitting'

grouphug

Dear Misty Blue (Debbie).........thank you for your lovely words....... hug

***_________________***
Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. flower
avatar
ayrlassie
Moderator

Posts : 770
Join date : 2014-08-25
Age : 68
Location : Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Back to top Go down

Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum