General Chat episode 12

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General Chat episode 12

Post by tearose on Sat 25 Apr - 20:26:51

This thread is for general chat. Please stay on topic, do not post back to back, and do not quote entire posts in your replies. Thank you Smile

Chat away........


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Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by lochness on Sun 26 Apr - 1:21:26

Ladies

Just viewed episode 112 on demand. Interesting assortment of events played out in different settings and with slightly different details. I have less invested in this one then 111 but I was glad Jamie could finally admit to Claire that the most important reason he married her was out of love. Nice moment there. Jenny came across very well during this episode and that was a pleasant surprise. I believe she stole the episode. Its going to be an interesting dynamic between her and the "Trollop". You could feel the negative vibes especially as Claire decided to interject her thoughts when itv came to the J&J dynamic.Jamie is still learning here from his wife as she tells him he is doing a lousy job being a laird and a brother. Do you feel that Claire is even more dominant here than in the books at the expense of Jamie's character? Thats my impression and I wonder why because believe me this gal needs no help with that.Who would have guessed that they would show you Tobias's first before Jamie? What were the odds on that. Now I suppose the chatter will go on to whose got the bigger one though judging on......lets not go there. The final scene is a creation of the TV series but if its suppose to be Jamie getting taken by the watch I suppose it will do. I enjoyed this episode especially after taking some advice from my friend Ayrlassie and just enjoying the TV version on its own merits.
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Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by deebeewags on Sun 26 Apr - 9:53:58

I'll start with a possibly controversial comment. Ref the books. The story yarn was brilliant. But they were in great need of good editing. What the tv guys are doing is taking the yarn and giving it a filter for viewing purposes. And I think they are doing it well!

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Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by yuleya on Sun 26 Apr - 11:36:05

I felt sorry for this episode for Lallybroch was not at all as I had imagined it: I always saw Lallybroch as a "warm" place where you feel sheltered and comforted. However, viewing the episode, I thought of it as being rather cold and very big and the blue of the wall paintings further added to that impression. Also, the focus of the episode really was on everything else but Claire's and Jamie's relationship; I for my part was a little bored on all the dialogues without something happening.
Overall, this episode is definitely one of the least attractive to me. Hopefully, the next one is going back to the former level.

How did you enjoy the episode? Were you happy with the display of things?

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Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by soniaG on Sun 26 Apr - 11:54:43

Dear all,

just a hi to you from me! Haven´t time to see it yet! I do see the impressions are ranking from all kind of feelings here!

Regarding BJR nudity: there are interesting comments from Diana and some other FB folks on her FB page! It is Margaret Walsh comment and all the answers. Just scroll down a bit .. Wink

BJR comments


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Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by lochness on Sun 26 Apr - 13:33:29

Dear yuleya I agree. Lallybroch is not exactly a warm and fuzzy place for Claire as it was in the books. In fact I found myself questioning her decision to stay with Jamie as the episode played out. This was suppose to be the place where she and Jaime made memories that would keep her going during the twenty years of separation. The place that she would yearn for in her heart during the "cold" times with Frank. So far that hasn't been conveyed in the TV production.
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Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by connieg on Sun 26 Apr - 14:30:07

lochness wrote:Dear yuleya I agree. Lallybroch is not exactly a warm and fuzzy place for Claire as it was in the books. In fact I found myself questioning her decision to stay with Jamie as the episode played out. This was suppose to be the place where she and Jaime made memories that would keep her going during the twenty years of separation. The place that she would yearn for in her heart during the "cold" times with Frank. So far that hasn't been conveyed in the TV production.

I agree with you Lochness. But if I remember correctly, Claire's warmth from Lallybroch really only came after she and Jenny made peace and came to respect each other and form their own friendship. Not sure if they'll have time in the TV series to portray that.
I also felt that Claire came on too strong when telling Jamie about his "Laird's behavior". But if it had been more subtle, would Jamie have really taken notice? He was quite "full of himself" being LAIRD!!

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Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by lochness on Sun 26 Apr - 15:46:50

Dear connieG I wonder that myself. Will Jamie listen to anything but in his face which is why Claire is so perfect for him. I am not sure either whether time will allow Jenny and Claire to heal the rift in the TV production. While watching this I found my mind jumping forward several books to another Lallybroch scene where Jenny not so subtly tries to get rid of Claire again!

Dear all thought I would add this. Dear Logo I "smoothly" avoided the dreaded back to back. Wink Interesting perspective on the episode 112 and what it all means.


http://www.salon.com/2015/04/26/outlander_shows_full_male_nudity_and_laughs_in_the_face_of_rape/
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Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by Bibolina on Sun 26 Apr - 21:05:06

I don't know, but I really didn't like this episode or as yulaya said it was the waekest one so far. It strayed very far from the book and I missed so many things: the nose to nose fight between Jamie and Jenny; Jamie being very respectful toward sIan and Jenny and what they have managed ober the years he wasn't there; Jamie as a family man (e.g. with his nefew); Jamie's and Ian?s shared past - a non book reader hasn't got a clue who Ian is! - Lallybroch being this wonderful warm, farm-type place; Claire finding a place as a healer....
Oh well, we can't have everything, I guess. Will have to rewatch 109 then, that was brillinat acting! lol!

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Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by Shadeflower on Sun 26 Apr - 22:15:03

I enjoyed their discussion on the ride to Lallybroch. I loved hearing them discuss airplanes, thought that was neat. The tender moments between Jamie and Claire were nice, especially the declarations of love.
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Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by Teasle11 on Sun 26 Apr - 23:48:30

I have watched this episode 3 times already (don't judge me!) I wasn't that moved by the Jamie/Jenny reconciliation scene, as I hadn't warmed to jenny initially, but my friend, who was watching the episode with me this evening for the first time, was in tears. Just goes to show how 2 people, who love the books and show, can view things differently. I have loved every episode and never notice anything missing until I look at reviews or social media. It's interesting to read other people's views though. BJR is one scary bastard and a part of me is now really worried about what they'll show at Wentworth. As Tobias has said, "if they show half of what was filmed, it will be very uncomfortable for the audience" but the other half of me can't wait to see Sam and Tobias at their best/worst.
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Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by ayrlassie on Mon 27 Apr - 1:06:37

First of all....Teasle11...I've watched it 3 times as well so no judgement from me Wink I liked it from the first go round but of course I had to be SURE!

Dear All (you know who you are),

I was a bit surprised at Jenny's 'bitchiness' at first but then with re-watching came to like it and think that all will be resolved with the birth scene and when they go out together to find Jamie - kindred spirits in their determined and strong shared love for him.

Claire's confronting Jamie about his arrogant, obnoxious behavior solidifies how strong their relationship is, after all, she took his criticism of her speaking out in front of his family and the servants - to me that shows such a mutual respect for each others opinions and really listening to what each other has to say, even thought she had to tell Jamie to STFU - pm me for clarification if you need it!  Oh, and really liked the Drunk Jamie....hilarious!

And finally....their declaration of love to each other....although abbreviated....at last!

Lot's more to say, but hungry people await.  Just wanted to give a brief opinion  grouphug

lochness wrote: I enjoyed this episode especially after taking some advice from my friend Ayrlassie and just enjoying the TV version on its own merits.

Ah lochness......you 'smoothie', you!  ilikeit


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Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by mano on Mon 27 Apr - 16:07:21

Black-Jack Randal is spoiling Frank's reputation !!!! Ron needs to remedy to that the way he did in the 1st batch (episodes 1 to 8 ). he saved our love to him by the episode ''both ways'' ..... he needs to do sthg !!!!!

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Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by lochness on Mon 27 Apr - 16:30:03

Black-Jack Randal is spoiling Frank's reputation !!!!

Dear Mano Ron has already stated that Frank will not make an appearance in the final 8 episodes of season one so it will have to wait till next year.
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Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by glenys on Mon 27 Apr - 18:22:16

I enjoyed the episode and I really like Jamie's sister Janet. Very well acted. Maybe I am going colour blind but Jamie's eyes were not blue in this episode - they looked more hazel in colour and Claire's were blue in all previous episodes but in this one they looked more like a light brown in colour. Did anyone else notice this? If not my eyes are failing!!!
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Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by ayrlassie on Mon 27 Apr - 18:50:32

glenys wrote:  Maybe I am going colour blind but Jamie's eyes were not blue in this episode - they looked more hazel in colour and Claire's were blue in all previous episodes but in this one they looked more like a light brown in colour.  Did anyone else notice this?  If not my eyes are failing!!!

No, Glenys, you aren't the only one.....I've noticed that almost from the first episode.  I think that it has to do with the lighting - interior vs exterior.

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Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by Sternenglanz68 on Mon 27 Apr - 19:01:40

Glenys, I didn´t notice that as I watch the episodes on my Laptop....display is too small Wink. But guess it´s like ayrlassie says - all those dark rooms and the colourful tapestries Smile

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Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by Misty Blue on Mon 27 Apr - 19:05:27

Hi everyone!
Well for me, this week's episode was all about re-connecting!  From the glorious opening, sweeping across the lush landscapes of Scotland, we see Jamie & Claire now really starting to 'connect' as husband & wife.  Their closeness, as ayrlassie (Norma) so accurately states, is evolving into a "mutual respect".
Enter the courtyard at Lallybroch, & the 're-connections' of the past come hurtling back.  Jenny's joy, soon turns to anger.  And as we watch the Fraser siblings conflict, poor Claire is left to stand & watch "this" family reunion as a complete outsider.  I really sensed her feeling of being an "Outlander" in this scene.  And as dear ayrlassie says; Jenny's bitchiness was a mighty surprise to me too.  Though after a second watch - totally understandable, given the violence & destruction, at the hands of the British.  Like you Norma, I believe Jenny going into Labour will alter the wrath between her & Claire, & they will start to unite on Jamie's behalf.
So now we come to the 're-connection' of the monstrous & evil BJR.  This man actually makes me cower, & my skin crawl - how on earth am I going to watch Episode 15!   shocked  Oh well don't think about that now!  Sorry I digress, but Tobias is terrifyingly magnificent in his portrayal - & I won't mention "Jack Junior" ahem!
Then we celebrate the Lairds return, (or as I like to call it - Jamie behaving like a complete arse, as Claire would say).  Thank you Lady Broch Turach for the "your not the Jamie I married speech", if a little stern.  Needed though in my opinion, Fraser's being so stubborn!
Loved drunk Jamie - so sweet.  Even Claire had a smirk on her face "Yep folks that's my beloved husband, whiskey & all"!
And even with a resounding hangover, Jamie the hero heads off to the mill to do his Lairds duty.  With regards to those elusive "red pants".  Perhaps even Sam saw that in the original script, & told Ron "I'm no wearing those"!
Moments that truly touched my heart, were Jamie reliving his time at Fort William, & the visit to his fathers grave.  On both count's it was incredibly moving, harrowing, & heart wrenching.  Here Jamie 're-connects' with his father through the memories he carries.

BUT, my ultimate favourite moment was - TA-DAH - DRUM ROLL PLEASE - the "DECLARATION OF LOVE" speech.  The way Jamie held Claire, showed utter adoration & true devotion.  And Claire's face in response - 3 CHEERS to Caitriona, you captured that perfectly!
And so to the end, & another cliffhanger.  I'm assuming, judging by the title of next week's episode, those men were part of The Watch.  Although a very dear friend of mine, texted me today to ask "I'm confused, were those men part of the McNabs"?  Mmm......we'll have to wait & see?

"So folks, that was my trip to Lallybroch!  Turn the horse's round aye, I need to go back"!!!
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Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by castlerock on Mon 27 Apr - 22:36:05

I do really enjoy and love the episode (only got it one time, more will follow Smile )…after the more rushing ones, this was a bit more quiet….love it, e.g. the plane explanation.

I really like Jenny & Ian, which I thought I could not before, because the 1st appearance of Jenny I do not like (when BJR was first at Lallybroch)…she was not like the one in my imagination,same with Ian in No. 12…but when they coming to "life" they where really well acted.

In my imagination Lallybroch was much smaller, but this is a beautiful estate, well decorated, not cold. Even when it´s so much bigger than expected, it has its cosiness….

Sorry, too tired today, will write more tomorrow..


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Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by ayrlassie on Tue 28 Apr - 0:13:45

Dear Misty Blue (Debbie) and castlerock,

I can see clearly now the reason for Jenny's behaviour towards Jamie - after the scene at the graveyard it becomes clear that both of them hold such guilt over their Dad's death, each believing that their own behaviour caused it.  Also Jenny's attitude towards Claire, a Sassenach, someone associated with BJR....such a sick evil psycho sadist.  In light of the darkness Debbie....loved the term "Jack Junior", very funny! I must say that Tobias Menzies really 'went there' in that scene - cudos to him - the epitome of evil and so well played!

Drunk Jamie/hung-over Jamie....hilarious!  Skinny-dipping Jamie  scotsmile

Did anyone else notice that Horrocks was among the Watch?

Well, this is interesting!

As I've said before....Tobias is very brave in this scene....as he says...the Frasers have got game....in spades!  How the hell do they do these scenes!

http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/outlander_tobias_menzies_black_jack_naked-2015-04




Sorry Lorraine....just noticed that I double posted and tried to attach to the prior one!  Falling on my knees begging forgiveness!  Sorry, Sorry, Sorry!


Well, this is interesting!

As I've said before....Tobias is very brave in this scene....as he says...the Frasers have got game....in spades! How the hell do they do these scenes!

http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/outlander_tobias_menzies_black_jack_naked-2015-04


Last edited by ayrlassie on Tue 28 Apr 2015 - 2:19; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Sorry Lorraine....just noticed that I double posted and tried to attach to the prior one! Falling on my knees begging forgiveness! Sorry, Sorry, Sorry!)



See, easy very happy Wink  
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Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by OutlanderTVSeries on Tue 28 Apr - 8:20:31

I totally agree with Bibolina.

Especially the relationship (and the fight!) between Jamie & Jenny was not worked out well. But maybe this is not so "important" for the show. I also missed Granny MacNab. Don't know why they have made this scene with Jenny instead of her.

And I think that it is a shame, that nobody knows who Ian really is (to Jamie).

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Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by Teasle11 on Tue 28 Apr - 11:19:41

OutlanderTVSeries wrote:I totally agree with Bibolina.

I also missed Granny MacNab. Don't know why they have made this scene with Jenny instead of her.


Jenny had to see Jamie's back to move the story along. It was obviously the best, quickest and possibly the only, opportunity for him to be topless in front of her. That's my view anyway. And Terry has said the red drawers were not appropriate for the time, not that it matters to me. They would have had comedic value but the flapping shirt tails were a nice visual.
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Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by Aikman Lass on Tue 28 Apr - 13:14:24

hello there Madainn mhath everyone:
As usual the scenery and costumes are wonderful all thanks to the camera crew who have the good fortune to film such a beautiful country....like it or not though I have to say everything in this show was too too rushed.
The fight although well done by the actors wasn't long enough to show that Frazer stubbornness that we are often see in the book. Perhaps some like Jennie's "trollop" comment (didn't occur) but if the producer wanted to inject this brief material he should have chosen a Scottish word that would have been more realistic of the times. I find very little content leading up to the 'Quarter Rent' day which oddly happens the day after J & C arrived. Just like previous episodes that did not show any big love connection between Claire & Jamie this show gives no indication of Claire's connection to tenants, the routines of daily life in Lallybroch or Ian & Jennie. How can she all of a sudden start feeling like she belongs at Lallybroch?? Just my thoughts for the morning. Gotta run!
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Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by soniaG on Tue 28 Apr - 13:29:47

Dear all,

I have read all your posts and many of you do like this episode. I am glad for you, dear Lochness, that you could enjoy this episode more and see it with Ayrlassie´s advice in a different light. Some however have problems with this one, don´t like it much or are disappointed how some scenes are executed .. I do understand all that very well .. Wink

Some of you maybe wondering why I didn´t post here any of my own impressions so far!

The truth is ..

.. watching this episode triggered some of very bad personal life events which let me almost throwing up.  pale  and  affraid  

Without going into more personal details (I am more or less in the process from recovering from it) the episode was disgusting for me and destroyed some good moments in this one to me because I did expect a more or less harmless episode and was instead confronted with an episode which was cut by several bloody flashbacks to flogging, almost rape etc.! (Yeah, I do know .. silly me exspecting a harmless episode ..  Rolling Eyes at myself)

Was this really necessary to repete all the already shown nasty flogging scenes with more blood???  Evil or Very Mad (My own answer: yes .. to remember all the new viewers who were just joining now .. )

---------------------------------

Dear Lochness, you posted this article (thanks by the way for posting the link here) where the author says how violent this TV show is and all the time we are confronted with rape, rape, assault, almost death and so on .. and I must confess .. yeah .. seeing it like this .. fully displayed .. she may has a valid point.

Reading is so different than watching it with eyes for me! So much different and has so a different effect on my physical system! DG books were in many aspect a little bit of therapy for me .. but I´ve lost for a few moments my liking of the books and asked myself .. wondering  cyclops  .. what I did so enjoy so much over the last decade???

---------------------

I am aware of that in fact no one is to blame but now I do know I can´t rewatch it and will probably need some help from all of you with further episodes in letting me know if there are further flashbacks and bloody scenes.

Wentworth - also it makes me curious to see it .. how they will do it  - I have to avoid! And I have somehow the feelings all the next episodes will be filled with more and more violence and all kind of bloody things!

Also the actor of BJR might have been very brave to act like he did (and I´ve read his reasons and I understand fully why he did it) but nevertheless I would have preferred very much no display of any real genitalia! I did find this rather disgusting .. ! But I am well aware this is partly because Tobias M. is so good in his role of this b*stard BJR and partial because of my own personal background!

Apart from my personal shock I didn´t find this episode an episode I do like much. It is the least one to be frank! I am sorry .. don´t want to offend anyone´s feelings but ...

.. I am really curious to know .. how you are standing to watch all these bloody scenes and flashbacks? How you manage it to enjoy anything of it if I may say so? I have used the wrong describitions or words .. I apology beforehand!

So, maybe you will ask yourself, if I did like anything about this particular episode?

I did like indeed a few things ..

... Jenny´s acting (and this I did find a little bit too exaggerated also I have to confess it is fitting to the different and tweaked TV story line) which was for sure outstanding but I waited for the humour in all the fight. And that was lacking .. that is a great character side from both siblings .. to fight and always throw something homorous in it. I would have preferred a real long fight and not cut in so little many pieces .. this is too unusual to the Fraser. They are coming out with it .. when they are coming out with it ... at once.

.. further the acting of Ian (my visual imagination is so so different, too) and the lost leg was so shocking .. (y by the way I am wondering how did they do it .. to show it like this?) ,,

.. the altered mill scene (which were fitting from for the TV genre but I could have done without it)

.. the first picture of the dogs in front of the fire which remembered me more of how I imagined the McRannoch´s living room where Claire tends to Jamie´s injuries after the fatal Wentworth´s experiences .. (but this picture was so false because the overall mood of this episode was nothing cosy and homely in my eyes!!!

.. the actings of all children and Robbie McNab .. this is one thing I observed in all the last episodes .. these kids are doing a very fine job. Just remember the young guy with the bleeding ear .. so convincing.

.. the acting of Robbie McNab father ..


-----------------------


I am afraid further to say .. the love scene between J&C was not at all convincing for me.  No Not the emotions displayed, not the words and it was not convincing for me that Claire at once replied with her own love declaration! And saying she is feeling at home .. with all the tensions going on between her and Jenny, the mill event, the Robbie McNab scene .. no ... much too early in my eyes.

But I confess the flashback scenes in combination with my own personal background and reactions didn´t gave me good impressions/feelings of the house. Yes, the designer may have made a bloody good job but I did find this inside style much too castle style. Too pompous! Not warm and welcoming .. more cold. But these are only my own feelings.

But I can´t help to notice that the TV story line deviates more and more in essential character attributes ... Jamie would never have reacted to a bad bread production to the housekeeper like this. The Fraser family is famous for treating their household members very kind and like a family. The are even eating all together ..

This is was I overall really don´t like ... the character changes ...  or better to underline/strengthen certain character flaws and to interchange certain acts of persons. This is why I often don´t recognised the books in this TV show. But yes, I do know .. this is not the book. But I am disappointed .. very much in this moment .. sad

The thing with the rents .. not  convincing. I am sorry. Jenny maybe have been reserved but has humor which we don´t find here .. yess .. it it not much time, I do know.

Okay .. enough said .. ! I am looking forward to discuss it with you further ...

Have a good time here alltogether ..  grouphug

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Re: General Chat episode 12

Post by lochness on Tue 28 Apr - 18:45:04

But I've lost for a few moments my liking of the books

Dear Sonia  I have thought on this all morning of how to respond to you. I cannot know what you have had to go through in life and perhaps thats as it should be but this is a violent story book or TV series. The difference for me is that in the book I have a way of deflecting the violence. That way is through the love of J&C for each other. It is their growing love and the bond that is developing in the story that gets me past the violence. In the TV series that relationship between J&C is very one dimensional lacking proper development. Its a choice of this TV version and its producer to handle the story in this fashion and the result is there is not much here to deflect the violence. Jaime and Claire in the TV version are not well developed and perhaps thats as a result of the medium itself. Not sure but I do know we all are left with this violence and nothing to wash it down with and out of our system.
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