General Chat

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Re: General Chat

Post by soniaG on Tue 21 Apr - 10:59:42

Hello to you all,

it seems that the most of us .. are united  scotflag .. .. less witch trial .. much less and MORE Jamie & Claire at the stones, the decision making of Claire ... the first almost disappearing (I´ve just reread the scenes til arriving in Lallybroach) of Claire were ignited by Jamie. Jamie pushed her through ... to see if it is working.

That is essential to the story .. not Claire going more or less herself .. Wink

Then some time reflecting pics of her marriage with both men (easily done virtuell) and then going back .. finding Jamie! A lot of words .. tenderness .. holding each other and so on! And for me the most important is

1) asking Claire why she chose to stay and Claire answering "Because .. I bloody well can´t do without you, Jamie Fraser, and that´s all about it"

and

2) not Jamie wanting to go home but saying "So now I suppose I can do the second-hardest thing. ... We are going home, Sassenach!" (by the way another point they tweaked and I do find so essential to the portray of Jamie´s character ..  !!!!)

We only get seconds ... instead .. sad
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Re: General Chat

Post by Misty Blue on Tue 21 Apr - 11:13:26

I heartily share your thoughts Aikman Lass, Shagur & soniaG (well said too Norma)!
In Episode 11, I was fooled for a split second, when the camera zoomed in on that towering mystical Stone.  When the screen went black, I wanted to shout out "no you can't end it there"!  Thankfully, they didn't leave the episode on a cliffhanger, (I read somewhere, the writer had to fight Ronald Moore, on that score).  So we did get to witness that fervent kiss between Jamie & Claire, & the knowledge she has made her choice.  I too missed that monumental scene - Claire & Jamie tumbling from the Settle in an whirlwind of shock, relief, passion & joy (as perfectly quoted by Aikman Lass above).
Now like Shagur I wait with baited breath, to see if the Producers redeem themselves, & allow some of those essential lines to make they're presence vitally known, throughout the next Episode.  I will reserve further judgement until then!
Wink
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Re: General Chat

Post by lochness on Tue 21 Apr - 14:47:33

Dear Aikman Lass I agree they have lost their moral compass indeed. This story of J&C put together by the producers is weakly bound and can come unravelled at any moment.
Dear Aikman Lass,Sonia, Misty Blue,Shagur and Outlander TV we are on shaky ground with this production. I doubt that these folks will go back and repair the damage. What's the outcome of all this? We have a believability factor for those who have not read the books that's going to get tested mightily very very soon. Could have a huge impact on how many folks stick around as this series continues. As.an example Wife and I just finished Fiery Cross which for us was the toughest book so far in the series to get through. What made it through for me was my "hunger" for more J&C which was anchored in Book 1 at places like the stones. Without this being done for a non book reading audience they may well drop this thing when the story moves on to Paris and Book 2. Just my thoughts what do you all think?
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Re: General Chat

Post by lochness on Tue 21 Apr - 16:20:19

Dear Logo ...ooops back to back posts Wink but I just wanted to say how much I appreciate what you do for the forums. Thanks!
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Re: General Chat

Post by Shagur on Tue 21 Apr - 17:07:44

Dear lochness et all, I´ve got another theory: (Well, I´m a triathlet, and when I´m doing a long, hard uphill bike training as I did this afternoon, it´s nice to distract my mind from my burning thighs with Outlander Wink  )

Regarding the last minutes of ep. 11, is it clear for the non-book readers that Claire choose to stay with Jamie? Is it not a bit of a cliffhanger if she just could not get back through the stones? At the trial she said „I don´t know if I even can go back“ and Geillis said „I think it is possible“. But we are not sure – the screen went black whe she went towards the stone. So she might have to stay in the past; and the revelation of choice or necessity for going back to Jamie is the opening of ep. 12 ??? What do you think about this theory ?  Question
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Re: General Chat

Post by lochness on Tue 21 Apr - 17:11:58

Dear Shagur good for you. Its takes an enormous amount of discipline both mentally and physically to do that! As to your theory well its possible I mean nothing at this point should surprise us but what happens at the end of Book 2 when she indeed does go back? Is her inability to travel through the stones now a "holiday" thing? Just asking.
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Re: General Chat

Post by Shagur on Tue 21 Apr - 17:39:14

lochness wrote:but what happens at the end of Book 2 when she indeed does go back? Is her inability to travel through the stones now a "holiday" thing? Just asking.
Dear lochness, thank you! I´m just saying the non-book readers don´t know yet if it´s possible to go back or not, do they?  We, the book fans, of course know it is and she choose to stay. Wink
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Re: General Chat

Post by Misty Blue on Tue 21 Apr - 17:57:17

That's a very clever theory Shagur - hadn't thought of it from that perspective. When the screen went dark, "I" instinctively knew, that signalled Claire's decision to stay, (through her own choice). "But", if I was a viewer who had not read the book, I may well have been duped into thinking Claire "couldn't" go back, rather than it being a voluntary decision. If the 'travelling through time' aspect had failed to work again, Claire would naturally be forced to stay with Jamie, regardless of love or otherwise. Like I said earlier, the Producer's in this next episode, have "really" got to focus on the 'UNIQUE & RARE' bond Jamie & Claire share, in every aspect of their life together. For the sake of Ms Gabaldon herself, the fan's, & the non-book viewers.
That is if there is any justice & conscience amongst the Starz Production Team!
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Re: General Chat

Post by lochness on Tue 21 Apr - 18:19:19

"Like I said earlier, the Producer's in this next episode, have "really" got to focus on the 'UNIQUE & RARE' bond Jamie & Claire share, in every aspect of their life together. For the sake of Ms Gabaldon herself, the fan's, & the non-book viewers.
That is if there is any justice & conscience amongst the Starz Production Team!"

Dear Misty Blue well said. I realize that we all are just excited to have an opportunity to watch Diana's work on screen however it must be respected. I have no problem with taking license on certain topic areas and running with it as an example Ned Gowan during the trial. What I do take exception to is a lack of attention towards Claire and why she's staying after all. Her reasons and reactions so far in the production have not been adequate and this has nothing to do with Cait's acting ability. This actress can sell this role beautifully if you allow her. For whatever reason their has been a conscious effort to limit Claire's responses to Jaime and if she has one to make it subdued. "On your feet soldier" is an example instead of what happened intimately between them in the book reactions and all. There are many many more in fact so many you have to think its purposeful. So whats the point? Are we to expect a "make up" episode where this all gets hashed out? That may be our only hope to getting this production back on track.
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Re: General Chat

Post by soniaG on Tue 21 Apr - 18:37:27

lochness wrote:
Is her inability to travel through the stones now a "holiday" thing? Just asking.

Forgive me dear Lochness,

but this sentence is genius .. makes me ..  laughing  a lot! Thank you .. but it is really very well nice sarcastically spoken! I am laughing because .. alone the imagination that travelling through the stones is so easily .. so lets jump back and forth for holiday reasons .. Wink

-------------------


Dear Shagur and Misty Blue and Lochness et al,

your theorie (yours dear Shagur) .. that she hasn´t made a real decision ... because we don´t see she didn´t go .. GREAT!!! Wink

But if so .. when will they let us see the decision ... I am wondering? Because Ron said in his podcast he had lots of voice over there but then he decided to put it away and just show the rings of the two husbands and the focus of the rings .. the shots of the silber and the gold band .. should show us the decision ..

So, the question is .. according to Ron .. Claire has made a decision! But is this clear to the overall audience??

And dear Lochness .. there is no room for a episode for all the loving things coming out or how you said it a make up episode  .. the next episodes there are huge changes to the storyline of the book!!! They tweaked a lot .. AGAIN! Like what I interpret from the trailer of second part of season one .. Ian injured leg .. the circumstances will be changed, too! Even the next episode Lallybroch will not be without violence .. But I am not sure yet .. And then there is Wentworth, the rescue, the cloister ..

It is such bad .. that we don´t see more review of those who don´t know the books .. well, there is one good reviewer .. but I have to or better we have to wait to see this recap propably til end of this week.

P.S. The Fiery Cross (one of my favourite books in the series .. ) why was it so hard to push through? I am curious to know ..


Last edited by soniaG on Tue 21 Apr - 20:04:31; edited 1 time in total
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Re: General Chat

Post by lochness on Tue 21 Apr - 19:03:59

Dear Sonia

Glad I could make you laugh. The book is rather long and I found the first half of it very slow. It seemed the details of the Gathering and such became rather tedious. However the second half was outstanding and I enjoyed that as much as any of the books so far.
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Re: General Chat

Post by ayrlassie on Tue 21 Apr - 19:26:26

Dear Shagur, lochness, Debbie (Misty Blue) and Sonia....

Wow, very interesting theories and thoughts by all of you - way too many to respond to regarding what I think....bit of a cop-out no Wink Suffice it to say that I have faith in what DG has posted on her Compu-Serve page and that all will be well in the end.....and if it isn't all right, it is not end.....oops, wrong movie!  Best Exotic Marigold Hotel - one of my favorites!

Of course we, as book readers, are passionate about what gets on screen and are outraged when our favorite scenes or those we feel should be given more time and dialogue don't but hopefully all will be conveyed in the end.....eternal optimist that I am.

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Re: General Chat

Post by logo1960. on Tue 21 Apr - 20:09:09

lochness wrote:Dear Logo ...ooops back to back posts Wink  but I just wanted to say how much I appreciate what you do for the forums. Thanks!

Oh you are a smoothie.... Wink
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Re: General Chat

Post by soniaG on Tue 21 Apr - 20:11:52

Dear Ayrlassie,

ayrlassie wrote:..and if it isn't all right, it is not end.....oops, wrong movie!  Best Exotic Marigold Hotel - one of my favorites!


laughing  Thank you for this .. sentence! I didn´t see Marigold Hotel . .the second part is out, eh? WEll, maybe I am going to see it .. with all these fabulous actors ..  hugbeer



Of course we, as book readers, are passionate about what gets on screen and are outraged when our favorite scenes or those we feel should be given more time and dialogue don't but hopefully all will be conveyed in the end.....eternal optimist that I am.

Ah, Ayrlassie .. perfect .. I am somehow today not able to articulate proper and long theories today and good .. we need people who are eternal optimist .. Wink

Sonia


Dear Lochness,

yeah book 5 .. with all the detailed descriptions of each minute of the big gathering .. can be exhausting. The first time I read it .. I wanted it through somewhere but I kept reading .. because of this a friend of mine decided to stop reading .. Wink

Nowadays I enjoy every detail of this gathering ...Wink
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Re: General Chat

Post by lochness on Tue 21 Apr - 20:46:19

Dear Logo  "In addition to fruit, many smoothies include crushed ice, frozen fruit, honey or contain syrup and ice ingredients." However to be precisely accurate description you would need to add Nuts and though I can be very sweet its not in my character to be so.


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Re: General Chat

Post by Musette Blanchard on Tue 21 Apr - 20:48:01

I didn't know about this speech - thank you so much CdnScots, since I'm not that much acquainted with American history, fantastic insertion indeed!
And another one very creative move was using the smallpox scar to be named by Geillis as 'the devil's mark' ah!
This ep will go down as one of the most intense and best played ever! All the actors involved were at the top of their game! Tim McInnerny (Father Bain) was the creepiest, most manipulative bastard ever! Nell Hudson as the silly 'Leghair', Bill Patterson as New Gowan, they were all fantastic but yes, the trifecta Lotte, Cait and Sam *shakes head* were absolutely shinning!
I think they could have kept the original trial scene where Sam throws the rosary to Cait, that would have been a lot more striking visually speaking but what do I know eh?
As for the final scene, I missed a harder/fearful reaction from Cait seeing the stones again but at the end? I cried like a baby!
"On your feet soldier, take me home, to Lallybroch." Aaaand cue tears!
Again thank you Outlander forum ladies for another amazing experience *bowing*
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Re: General Chat

Post by soniaG on Tue 21 Apr - 21:29:25

lochness wrote:Dear Logo  "In addition to fruit, many smoothies include crushed ice, frozen fruit, honey or contain syrup and ice ingredients." However to be precisely accurate description you would need to add Nuts and though I can be very sweet its not in my character to be so.

Lochness,

you made it again .. making me laugh!  laughing

Now I am curious, dear Lochness, you usually are not sweet ..  lol!  (well, you a man, right?) .. but sour also not, or?  lol!  So, what are you then?

P.S. Oh I am having fun today on this forum ..  hugbeer


--------------------------------------

Dear Musette,

re "I think they could have kept the original trial scene where Sam throws the rosary to Cait, that would have been a lot more striking visually speaking but what do I know eh?" ..

Diana said it would need a lot of talent and time to have the original scene played out .. ! So they came up with the trial in a real church (because on the streets they didn´t receive admittance for extended long film shots .. that is why we see the people on the streets only short).

This is just for your information .. Wink


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Re: General Chat

Post by lochness on Tue 21 Apr - 21:46:03

Dear Sonia no not sour either but rather like distressed leather Smile
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Re: General Chat

Post by ayrlassie on Tue 21 Apr - 22:09:55

lochness wrote:Dear Sonia no not sour either but rather like distressed leather   Smile  

Nothing wrong with distressed leather lochness......all soft and malleable......just right Wink

Thanks for the giggles!

scotsmile

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Re: General Chat

Post by Aikman Lass on Tue 21 Apr - 23:20:12

Misty Blue wrote: Like I said earlier, the Producer's in this next episode, have "really" got to focus on the 'UNIQUE & RARE' bond Jamie & Claire share, in every aspect of their life together.  For the sake of Ms Gabaldon herself, the fan's, & the non-book viewers.
That is if there is any justice & conscience amongst the Starz Production Team!

Misty Blue: I totally agree with you.  In the episodes we are not seeing big or tiny hints of a growing love between Jamie and Claire. All we get is steamy sex. Don't get me wrong sex is great but never complete without love.  The Starz Team "On your feet soldier" idea was unbelievably stupid. Real impression of Love there.....NOT! I too would hope the producers get their act together and start presenting episodes closer to the actual story. I never read the Battlestar Galactica story and begin to wonder if Ron totally demolished that story line too.

As for hoping for justice & a conscience on the part of Starz Production Team I think I'll be 'waiting until the cows come home' which will be never. I don't live on the farm anymore.
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Re: General Chat

Post by soniaG on Tue 21 Apr - 23:31:56

ayrlassie wrote:
lochness wrote:Dear Sonia no not sour either but rather like distressed leather   Smile  

Nothing wrong with distressed leather lochness......all soft and malleable......just right Wink

Thanks for the giggles!

scotsmile

Mega .. laughing laughing !


Thank you, dear Lochness and Ayrlassie, for this giggle!

.......................

Dear Aikman Lass,


I am with you dear Aikman Lass. On your feet soldier .. I do find the most awful line for a couple deeply in love. Ruined the last scene .. Wink Regarding Battlestar Galaktia .. well, I´ve never seen a whole episode .. but somehow I never like this series.


....................


Dear Lochness,

if you want to have another prove than non-reader are confused at the end of this episode .. you have to read this recap.

Ps click me!

At the end she is wondering .. "It ends with Claire returning to Jamie and saying she’s ready to go home to Lallybrook. But what does it mean? Did Claire opt not to go back? Or did the stones not work? Or did she go through for an indeterminate amount of time and then return?"

But most of all ... this is the funniest recap I´ve read so far ... so great! Was giggling much .. I know .. I maybe shouldn´t post it here .. it belong in the other section .. Wink

Here are a few sentence which are cracking me up:

"Also, I hope Geillis is alive if only so she can explain the free love of the 1960s aka polyamory to these people and we can avoid 18 seasons of drama. The boys can learn to share."

Re .. if the stones are working:

"But, I mean, there’s no way this is gonna work. There have to be the right conditions, right? If anyone touching the rocks fell through time, people would be popping in and out of the timestream willy-nilly."
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Re: General Chat

Post by connieg on Tue 21 Apr - 23:50:18

“I opened a book and in I strode. Now nobody can find me.
I've left my chair, my house, my road, My town and my world behind me.
I'm wearing the cloak, I've slipped on the ring, I've swallowed the magic potion.
I've fought with a dragon, dined with a king
And dived in a bottomless ocean.
I opened a book and made some friends. I shared their tears and laughter
And followed their road with its bumps and bends
To the happily ever after.
I finished my book and out I came. The cloak can no longer hide me.
My chair and my house are just the same, But I have a book inside me.”
― Julia Donaldson

Musette Blanchard, thank you for that! Since I am an avid reader, I can totally relate.
I'm finding that I can appreciate the differences between the books and the TV series. Maybe because I have the background from the books, I'm OK with what is in the TV series. I'm just enjoying seeing Outlander brought to life! And Sam & Cait are awesome together <3

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Re: General Chat

Post by Misty Blue on Wed 22 Apr - 0:06:24

Loving all the comments everyone - your all sharp as knives, with these fascinating observations & views regarding Episode 11.
lochness - you sir, continually make us smile, as do you soniaG. Aikman Lass united we stand on the Claire & Jamie "bond".
But Norma (ayrlassie) your remarks earlier about "keeping the faith" & "eternal optimism" are what have comforted me the most. hug Therefore, I am going to take a leaf out of your book. As after all, we have yet to view, the next 'compelling' episode, where all may be revealed between our beloved Jamie & Claire, & their beloved relationship.
And I keep telling myself, the divine Ms Gabaldon "is" Consultant on the show, isn't she?! See I believe it's starting to take effect already - NIGHT ALL!!!
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Re: General Chat

Post by outlander12 on Wed 22 Apr - 0:27:13

I agree with you "connieg", having read the books gives me a lot more of the backstory and I understand what the charactors are thinking and feeling, so I am OK with the TV series as it is, I just love it, naturally there are things that dont get said or done as we remember them in the book, but I still think they are doing a wonderful job, but in saying that ..any new viewers that have not read the books with such avid devotion as we all have , may be a bit lost in some places, but I am sure they will come around(or heaven forbid, they may go and buy the books and read them). I hope it continues for many seasons to come.
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Re: General Chat

Post by Aikman Lass on Wed 22 Apr - 4:00:49

hello there  Posting here hope I'm in the right category.

Episode 11 – on one hand we can say ..interesting scenes, great acting, beautiful costuming, etc... But being the “Odd man out” I have say I prefer my book “The Real Story”.

My first but expected disappointment is with the Thieves Hole scenes. I won’t waste much time here except to say the producers version varies a fair bit from my book.  Really irritating was the flip-flopping of the interaction & emotions between the two characters:  Claire – anger, hate, distant, dreamy, happy, friendly, consoling, etc. / Geillis – sly, tough, cocky, sad, lost, cold, friendly, sympathetic. Not displayed in the written version like this.

Note.... How many noticed that along with Geillis’ Jacobite reasons for building her relationship with Dougal we are now given the impression that she loves him. She said Dougal “was her match”.....again here go the producers changing conversations – why?? What Geillis actually said to Claire....”Colum would have been better.  A pity his misfortune is mine as well. It’s him would have been better, the one I should have had; the only man I’ve seen could be my proper match.”  Do the producers just want to change everything possible to make this story theirs instead of Diana's Question

Did anyone also notice that Claire and Geillis are hardly dirty and their clothing is in pretty good order, no rents or raggedness. Rough handling and a hole in the ground where rain falls in, villagers toss in garbage and a ‘smell that could knock a ferret over’ and bear in mind what else would be down in a thieves hole which is lacking a garderobe or chamberpot ....does anyone else think the ladies should have been a lot more dishevelled and really filthy Question
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