General Chat

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Re: General Chat

Post by GinaF on Sat 25 Apr - 23:35:13

Hi everyone!

Just want to say how grateful I am to this forum and to be able to connect with all the Outlander fans!  Just a few thoughts I've had... first, I do think this is an extremely well cast show and everyone is stepping up and giving it their all with the material given.  I also so understand that the T.V. show will have some changes and be different from the books.  I am however having problems with some of the pivitol parts being changed or left out completely.  For example, I don't understand giving most of the time of this latest episode 'The Devil's Mark' to the witch trial and then we get rushed through to the stones... rushed through to the end.  There is some off-the-charts chemistry between Sam & Cait and I truly believe they could have stayed more true to the book version and hit a huge home run.  For me, they needed to get this part of the book right because they've left out enough for me so far that I needed this scene to be very close to the book.  I'm emotionally invested in this couple in the books and in the T.V. show I'm just left feeling frustrated and confused.  Like I said, Sam & Cait are doing a magnificent job- I don't think we could ask for a better 'Jamie & Claire'.  I not only needed to 'see' more from the stones scene and what happened after, I needed to 'feel' the reasons for her choice and simply didn't.  Claire even said earlier in the episode that 'all she wanted to do was go home.'  So, why didn't she?  In the books we understand... but not so in the T.V. show.  I also do not understand the ending... why Jamie would be outside & make a fire when he is an outlaw... and we've already seen English soldiers at the stones... he simply wouldn't do that.  And this is where I have a huge problem with Claire coming up and saying "On your feet soldier"... are you kidding me??? Really???  He's outside, fire lit saying "come & get me you dragoons you" and she comes up and says something like that?  I'm actually shocked he didn't jump up with his sword & dirk in hand ready to fight!!!  Why oh why couldn't they have just done the scenes from the book?  They would have been so heartfelt, so wonderful!!!  My mom, who has not read the books but is watching the show even said that she loves Jamie & hopes Claire stays with him, but doesn't really understand what she saw at the stones.  I asked her if the show has shown her why Claire would stay with Jamie and she said 'No, not really'.  Ron spent alot of time giving us the reasons that Claire wanted to return to Frank.  Why couldn't he have spent the same amount of time doing the same for Claire and her reasons to stay with Jamie?  I am going to watch the rest of season one because I love Sam & Cait, but am not really sure if I want to continue watching after that.  I know how great and epic this could be on the screen- I hope they get back on track and simply stay true to the wonderful story Diana has written... if not- I will always have the books!!!

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Re: General Chat

Post by Aikman Lass on Sun 26 Apr - 2:13:27

GinaF wrote:... first, I do think this is an extremely well cast show and everyone is stepping up and giving it their all with the material given.  I also so understand that the T.V. show will have some changes and be different from the books.  I am however having problems with some of the pivitol parts being changed or left out completely.

Hello GinaF: Welcome to this forum! Another kindred spirit here. sunny I had to leave most of your comments in here because I feel they so perfect. Like many others I can agree on the very good quality of the show as entertainment. I also don't like the scenes that have been drastically change or removed, some are very important.  notalone    

...we get rushed through to the stones... rushed through to the end.  There is some off-the-charts chemistry between Sam & Cait and I truly believe they could have stayed more true to the book version and hit a huge home run.  For me, they needed to get this part of the book right... I'm emotionally invested in this couple in the books and in the T.V. show I'm just left feeling frustrated and confused.  Like I said, Sam & Cait are doing a magnificent job- I don't think we could ask for a better 'Jamie & Claire'.

I also feel very connected to this couple & their love that endures all the hardships & the passages through time & the story content swirling around them is what helps to build & bind this whole story together. I also feel the frustration & confusion because I expected the show to be a better representation of the book. So sadly disappointed. sad  

I not only needed to 'see' more from the stones scene and what happened after, I needed to 'feel' the reasons for her choice and simply didn't.  Claire even said earlier in the episode that 'all she wanted to do was go home.'  So, why didn't she?  In the books we understand... but not so in the T.V. show.  I also do not understand the ending... why Jamie would be outside & make a fire when he is an outlaw... and we've already seen English soldiers at the stones... he simply wouldn't do that.  And this is where I have a huge problem with Claire coming up and saying "On your feet soldier"... are you kidding me??? Really???  He's outside, fire lit saying "come & get me you dragoons you" and she comes up and says something like that?  I'm actually shocked he didn't jump up with his sword & dirk in hand ready to fight!!!  Why oh why couldn't they have just done the scenes from the book?  They would have been so heartfelt, so wonderful!!!

Wow! Well said!!! Until this point the book shows us a growing love connection between Jamie & Claire so why did the producers leave out those hints of growing love & also take away that most important Last scene?  The original climax that I waited for was the ruined croft, tear streaked Jamie asleep on the settle, his shock, their fall to the floor with Jamie squashing her. Don't think I need to quote Claire's thoughts at that moment before they make love. Diane's creation of this scene made my heart stop with the happiness & love I felt. SoniaG & I also noticed that idiotic smoke & it's obviously made overly billowy and thick...symbolic?..who knows....let's not forget village people may be pursuing them. There was no fire but if there was - people at that time would diffuse the smoke of a very tiny fire. "On your feet soldier"..so exactly my thoughts. "Cold as Ice" would give viewers many different thoughts but not the right one....which is meant to be a choice for love.

My mom, who has not read the books but is watching the show even said that she loves Jamie & hopes Claire stays with him, but doesn't really understand what she saw at the stones.  I asked her if the show has shown her why Claire would stay with Jamie and she said 'No, not really'.  Ron spent alot of time giving us the reasons that Claire wanted to return to Frank.  Why couldn't he have spent the same amount of time doing the same for Claire and her reasons to stay with Jamie?  I am going to watch the rest of season one because I love Sam & Cait, but am not really sure if I want to continue watching after that.  I know how great and epic this could be on the screen- I hope they get back on track and simply stay true to the wonderful story Diana has written... if not- I will always have the books!!!

Your mom's opinion on the TV story is an excellent example of the damage the producer has caused by so many deletions & rewrites. When talking about the made-for-TV show Ron apparently promised to stay as close the story line as possible!...he's actually taking it further away. True in converting a big story it does mean some deletions but should still be close enough so that non-book readers & book readers are all seeing, experiencing & understanding the same story .
Just want to thank you for your opinions...so like mine! Don't give up on watching the show though it is a nice 'period piece' production with great scenery & excellent acting. Good entertainment, just not quite Outlander. I find after each show I have to reread that section of the book to alleviate some of my confusion when watching live scenes that just don't jive with my memories of certain conversations & scenes.    Just curious have you also read the Lord John series? More amazing writing by Diana!
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Re: General Chat

Post by GinaF on Sun 26 Apr - 3:06:29

Hi Aikman Lass!

Thank you so much for your response to my post.  I wasn't sure if I was going to make one, but I really wanted to.  I appreciate all of your comments and I cannot tell you how much it does mean to know I'm not alone in some of the thoughts I have of the series so far.  I'm so conflicted because I truly love all the actors and the job they are doing, but at the same time I need the producers to understand what could be changed, what could be left out and truly what NEEDS to be left in to tell this story with emotional honesty- and yes, you are right when you said that book readers and non-book readers should all be seeing, experiencing and understanding the same story.  Sadly, I cannot say this is happening.  Yes, I will still watch... I truly want to love, love this T.V. series- I'm such a fan of the love story of Jamie & Claire- all the ways they fight to stay together and grow as a couple... all the pain, heartache, sacrifice, forgiveness, passion and love- I believe they are true 'soul mates.'  Sam & Cait are portraying Jamie & Claire perfectly!
I've just finished reading 'Written In My Own Heart's Blood' and no, I've not read any of the Lord John series but thought I might with 'The Scottish Prisoner'.  
Thanks again Aikman Lass!
Gina

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Re: General Chat

Post by ayrlassie on Sun 26 Apr - 3:57:38

soniaG wrote:Dear all and dear Ayrlassie,


I am asking myself why Claire prefered to work herself, to invest herself so much on the fields as a combat nurse instead of seeking physically the closeness of her husband! As we know now she is a healer and this is what nourish her the most. But with Jamie she does it but always with him (mostly) at her side. With Jamie she needs him near .. for both is it that way ..

Dear Sonia,

I meant to address this earlier, so here goes:

First of all,

In 1939 there was a deep patriotic feeling that one had to do one's duty - especially in England, where the threat was felt the most, - to sign up for whatever it was to protect your country.  Claire was a nurse with a profound empathy to help her fellow man - she had to go!  If you read about what happened in the history of England, lead by Churchill, there was never a choice....one just did it....he called every man and woman that could and would serve.  The men were called to arms and the women took over what the men used to do, they burrowed in and pulled up the slack that the men had left, Claire chose to go to the front lines to do whatever she could to help....courageous souls they were.

Many of my relatives have served for our country in past conflicts, and I'm so proud of them.

My profound hope is that we never see this type of war again.

Well, in retrospect.....we are witnessing a much more insidious type of war....sadly!


Last edited by ayrlassie on Sun 26 Apr - 4:04:50; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added text)

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Re: General Chat

Post by Aikman Lass on Sun 26 Apr - 5:11:58

hello there Thanks ayrlassie!
Such a perfect description of why Claire went to serve as a nurse. In England and even here in Canada women did their part to help. Anything...taking over men's jobs to keep the country functioning, helping convalescing soldiers, nursing,running entertainment places to bolster the spirit of those dedicated fighting men who might never come home, so many many things & working in weapons & ammo factories. Three of my great aunts worked in an ammo factory in Toronto, Ontario. All my great aunts, sister-in-laws & parents stayed close together, many staying in the same homes to help keep costs down by sharing - there was food rationing back then.

I also am very proud...my grandfather and his two brothers went to war but my family was more fortunate than many because they luckily came home.

You are right about the type of war that is brewing now. I am married to a Palestinian whose family history extends back very far past the Ottoman empire in Beit Jala, Bethlehem and Jerusalem. I had to do a lot of historical reading about the history of my husband's people & over time learned about everything from religions, peoples, middle eastern countries & the causes of their conflicts. My best friends are Syrian whose family keeps us posted as the actual news happens so I understand all the complexities of what is taking place. There is no word that can fully describe the evil that I think the world will be facing. I worry about the possibility of a full out world war and what it will do to our people.  Sorry I guess this part of my comment is off topic. Couldn't help it I'm big on politics.

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Re: General Chat

Post by ayrlassie on Sun 26 Apr - 5:49:55

Dear Aikman Lass,

Thank you so much for your post!

We learn so much from communicating with each other and I appreciate your situation and how eloquently you've shared it.

There's so much fear in our world today based on nothing more than what the media chooses to tell us and I refuse to take it at face value but where do we learn the truth?

Thank you again for sharing and perhaps you can enlighten us to what is really going on.

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Re: General Chat

Post by Sternenglanz68 on Sun 26 Apr - 7:54:48

Dear all, I have not taken part in the discussion of the episodes due to not being a native Engish speaker and therefor having problems expressing my thoughts properly Smile. But I read most of your posts about episode 10 and 11, though finding that coming to the end you acutally analyse the characters of the book and the book itself and not the episodes Wink but I figured the following for myself: Sam and Cait are actors and play Jamie and Claire. So the chemistry either develops from episode to episode or it doesn´t. In the end they are not a couple in real live and have to develop it. It makes a great actor being able to create it right from the start. And there are some which are capable of it. Sam and Cait are, in my opinion, not. Cait is highly reserved and too pert and Sam has his moments like the scene when he sat in the window with the unloaded pistol or at the witch trial rescuing Claire again Wink. But in others he is kind of clumsy and it feels like he´ll turn around and ask the producers: May I or may I not....do this now! The sex scenes are played well but the love we know from the books is not there and will probably not be there in the following episodes either due to the above mentioned. They are only actors and not the beloved characters from the books. And like with all great books turned into films and series there will always be mistakes made. Like the fire Jamie lit while waiting til nightfall. That truely is stupid but the producers will know by now but it cannot be changed in the end. Remember the trombone player in Ben Hur wearing a watch? The visible strings on the  owls in Harry Potter? A crew member from set  in Pirates of the Caribbean visible? All stupid but made and those mistakes fill whole sides on the internet lol! I like the series, as I wrote off topic in Clips and Trailers Wink if only for those beautiful costumes, the stunning landscape, great actors like Graham McTavish, Gary Lewis and Bill Patterson, the love for details on the set, the gorgeous music from Bear McCreary (worth a Golden Globe) and don´t get me wrong, I like Sam and Cait just their interaction doesn´t come over big. That´s why I stopped comparing book and series after the second or third episode to be able to enjoy and not be turned away completely like GinaF. Still think Ron Moore does a great job and I am very curious about the next episodes!

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Re: General Chat

Post by soniaG on Sun 26 Apr - 11:39:02

ayrlassie wrote:In 1939 there was a deep patriotic feeling that one had to do one's duty - especially in England, where the threat was felt the most, - to sign up for whatever it was to protect your country.  Claire was a nurse with a profound empathy to help her fellow man - she had to go!  If you read about what happened in the history of England, lead by Churchill, there was never a choice....one just did it....he called every man and woman that could and would serve.  The men were called to arms and the women took over what the men used to do, they burrowed in and pulled up the slack that the men had left, Claire chose to go to the front lines to do whatever she could to help....courageous souls they were.

Many of my relatives have served for our country in past conflicts, and I'm so proud of them.

My profound hope is that we never see this type of war again.

My dear Ayrlassie,

I am sorry that I left out this fact! Also I am well aware of all of this patriostism .. (have enough relatives who served the first and second word war (from hiding Jewish people til fighting in the army - if they wanted to or not - and many women who did the work for all the men gone in the war - I even had written a historic paper over 40 pages of women who left home in order to overtake all the men work during the second war at part of my end exams in high school)!

And my respect to all the families of yours, Aikman Lass and all others here on the forum who fought in this horrific war!! mex wave

But thank you for stating it again to clearly here!  Wink I just wanted to say that apart from this call which all English (I may say all parties involved) people including Claire felt .. she could have also sought more the proximity of her husband. For example .. looking for a place to help beside his duties and task. But this was only meant as a question ...! Maybe I am totally wrong .. to have asked this question .. I leave it up to you!

I hope I didn´t offense anybody of you regarding this matter! Wink As a German it is not so easy to talk about this without risking someone´s feelings! If I did offense some feelings .. then my sincere apologies here from me.

------------------------
Dear Shagur,

Shagur wrote:
I agree to your assumptions about Claire and Frank and also about Claire seeking proximity to Frank by sex.
You´re expressing your thoughts so well – bravo! And you always hit the nail . hello there

I even cannot watch episode 112 tomorrow, have to wait until monday  No  …

you have my utmost empathy that you have to wait a little longer to see the next episode!  hug

And thank you very much for your kind word to me!!! Like it!  hug  Looking forward to discuss the next one again with you here .. Wink


--------------------


Dear GinaF,

welcome to our lively discussion club! I also share a lot of thoughts and opinions which you were so kindly to write down here with you .. Wink

Good for you .. that these actors are so perfect for you! Wink Hope you hook up with us on the next episode as well! And if I haven´t it said alreay .. my very welcome to you!  welcome

-----------------------


Dear Sternenglanz,

welcome to this discussion! So great to hear you what you are feeling and what your impressions are  regarding the TV serie from Ron Moore on STARZ!!!  cheers  bounce  cheers

I was curious about it. Now you did nourish my curiosity! Thank you very much for taking your time and write it all down. Wink


--------------------------------------

Dear ALL!

I do love this our group of discussions! It feels like a little family for me and that is so good .. it feels so good! How deep our conversations here are running - amazing and wonderful! And yes, dear Sternenglanz, sometimes .. often we even discuss the books.. in new ways and in old ways! I do think this is one of the main intentions of making a movie out of the books. To ignite people to discuss it further .. to get new insights and a new overall understanding !!!

I am mostly feeling deeply understood, nourished, filled with joy, moments to laugh, blessed with lots of new insights and not alone with all my opinions, thoughts, impression and questions !!!!!!!!! And it gives me companionship in mind and spirit!

excited happy  excited happy

THANK YOU so much for this !!!!!!!!!!!!!! mex wave  mex wave  mex wave  and a big  hug to each one of you who is here to take part or just reading it with interest!


sunny  SoniaG sunny
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Re: General Chat

Post by lochness on Sun 26 Apr - 14:09:20

I do love this our group of discussions!

Dear Sonia,Aikman Lass,Sterenglanz,Ayrlassie,Shagur,GinaF & All

Wow these discussions are reaching another level and I so enjoy them. Yes this is just a production and these are just actors but oh my how it brings out us. For me in the midst of all the emotions and feelings that this series brings forth makes my heart break for lying next to me is my love and I know first hand the pain that separation can cause. I know first hand what a fool I have been to take my soul mate for granted. To not love her more fully and completely. You see I am one of those "flawed" actors except I am real. So with all the warts displayed this production and the book reconnect me to her and I am so grateful. Yes I cried again at the stones even after the third watching warts and all. I wanted so badly to make love to my wife afterwards but she is sick having contracted a bad cold at our meeting where she was splendid as usual. I may not be the best of lovers but we share our lives together totally and I thank books and production for making me aware and grateful once again. I am truly blessed with her and all of you.
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Re: General Chat

Post by Aikman Lass on Sun 26 Apr - 15:09:55

[quote="soniaG"]
I am sorry that I left out this fact! Also I am well aware of all of this patriostism .. (have enough relatives who served the first and second word war (from hiding Jewish people til fighting in the army - if they wanted to or not - and many women who did the work for all the men gone in the war - I even had written a historic paper over 40 pages of women who left home in order to overtake all the men work during the second war at part of my end exams in high school)!
And my respect to all the families of yours, Aikman Lass and all others here on the forum who fought in this horrific war!! mex wave
But thank you for stating it again to clearly here!  Wink I just wanted to say that apart from this call which all English (I may say all parties involved) people including Claire felt .. she could have also sought more the proximity of her husband. For example .. looking for a place to help beside his duties and task. But this was only meant as a question ...! Maybe I am totally wrong .. to have asked this question .. I leave it up to you!
I hope I didn´t offense anybody of you regarding this matter! Wink As a German it is not so easy to talk about this without risking someone´s feelings! If I did offense some feelings .. then my sincere apologies here from me.

Very Dear soniaG:
You are the first person I actually felt a real connection with in what I consider to be an important discussion area of the forum. Your funny, intuitive, thoughtful, engaging, a deep thinker (which I like), and my list could go on. I leave the forum for the day with a smile on my face & a happy feeling after reading some of you comments.  very happy

There is nothing whatsoever for which you need to apologize. You had a thought about Claire leaving her husband to go to war. The explanation just seemed to blossom into another area simply because it connected to the reasons given for Claire leaving (that of course had nothing to do with love). You like ayrlassie, myself and millions of people all over the world have been touched by wars, many people forced to fight even if they didn't agree & often our loved ones never came home. Wars continue all over the world till today because in mankind there is a penchant to be good or evil, even both. It is countries leaders, men of power & armies who often take people into wars for evil intentions. It is also evil people  Twisted Evil  who keep certain parts of past wars histories (like Germany) alive for their own selfish gains (I won't mention names). This specific war is long over, many good people were stuck in the middle with nowhere to go. The German people should stand tall & proud for what their country has become & all the great things they are accomplishing & also be proud of all the respect they garner from other nations they work with. In this century the German people have nothing to apologize for. SoniaG I AM NOT OFFENDED AT ALL and if anyone takes offense it would be shameful in my opinion. I know all members who have read your comments or dialogued with you love you. So from me and all the rest "Prost".  mex wave

Dear Logo1960: Sorry again. This is off topic but again slightly connected to the posed comment that got it snowballing. I felt very strongly about SoniaG's deeps concerns and want her to know why she should not feel she has done any wrong in any shape or form.  So sorry again. I'll try to keep within the forum threads and hopefully on topic in the future.

Regards
Aikman Lass    

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Re: General Chat

Post by ayrlassie on Sun 26 Apr - 15:20:05

Dear Aikman Lass,
You certainly put that much better than I could and I agree with you 100%......Sonia, I don't think you're capable of offending anyone - ever!

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Re: General Chat

Post by lochness on Sun 26 Apr - 15:37:52

Dear Sonia
I have only been corresponding with you for a short while but in that period of time I have gotten glimpses of you through our interactions and your insights. How can you offend when you speak from the heart? There is no malice in those words and thoughts so deeply moving and yes heart felt. I choose to believe here that we can be vulnerable and open because we are among kindred spirits. No judgements just a warm embrace and a welcome home.
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Re: General Chat

Post by soniaG on Sun 26 Apr - 15:47:02

My dear Aikman Lass,
my dear Ayrlassie,

now I feel really more than slightly embarrassed but also relieved!  Blush Thank God .. that I didn´t offend any of you!

Well, now you are exaggerating dear Ayrlassie a little bit. Offense can sometimes happens so fast. But thank you, my dear,  very much for your faith in me!!!  hug


-----------------------


Dear Aikman Lass,

what I can say other than your written lines are touching me very deeply!!!

Wow, wow! I am speechless and at the same time so thankful for getting such kindful words from your side! And also so many kindful words regarding us Germans, this is so good to hear .. Wink

I had no idea that my words of some posts were helping you so much!   mex wave

What can I say .. I am still flabbergasted and surprised (but happily) and this is a real confirmation that all my big efforts regarding empathic and clearer communication in the last 13 years being made were it worth  Wink

Nothing more left to say for me right now .. except THANK YOU again!!



----------------------


P.S. Dear Logo: I am sorry .. this is off-topic again .. Wink
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Re: General Chat

Post by Aikman Lass on Sun 26 Apr - 16:45:13

Sternenglanz68 wrote: But I read most of your posts about episode 10 and 11, though finding that coming to the end you acutally analyse the characters of the book and the book itself and not the episodes Wink but I figured the following for myself: Sam and Cait are actors and play Jamie and Claire. So the chemistry either develops from episode to episode or it doesn´t. In the end they are not a couple in real live and have to develop it. It makes a great actor being able to create it right from the start. And there are some which are capable of it. Sam and Cait are, in my opinion, not.....The sex scenes are played well but the love we know from the books is not there and will probably not be there in the following episodes either due to the above mentioned....don´t get me wrong, I like Sam and Cait just their interaction doesn´t come over big.

hello there Hi Sternenglanz68:
Hope you continue adding your thoughts & don't to worry about translation we all will manage, your comments here are just fine.
This following comment is actually not meant for you Sternenglanz68 but explains why I never participated. For myself language was not the problem that prevented me from being part of dialogues as far back as last year until recently.  What stopped me in my tracks was that so many individuals were vehement (& I do mean vehement) (sorry I forgot to clarify that those types of posts were ones I read in 2014 comments but I think has carried through to this season only less obvious) about not liking anyone making negative comments whatsoever about the show. I will say this for all members with regard to the show/book, no help for it they are intrinsically connected. I think all members thoughts should be welcomed here be they positive or negative on all aspects of the show even in comparison with the book.....after all this is a FORUM which even in times past is a place for ideas, suggestions, discussion, a meeting of like or different minds, learning, clarification, etc.....To all members just think if every one thought the same with no new ideas or free speech throughout history we might not even have simple thing like the invention of the wheel let alone reach the level of intelligence and technology we enjoy today.  If by chance you find you don't like another member's comments then there is a very simple solution, identify the member's name or avatar and don't read their comments. Personally I like to read every members comments even if I might not agree. I have to wonder why the number of people commenting on the episodes is such a small group...could be they get the impression their own opinions would be unwelcome. Well sorry for this rant but boy do I feel better now.  excited happy


My thoughts with regard to Sam and Cait is that they are excellent actors & I'm surprised they haven't been recognized by a lot more movie producers out there. In their roles as Jamie & Claire they have brought the best acting to the screen but can only deliver what is within the parameters of the scripts. That's why so many of us question the quality of production and the minor & major changes to the actual written storylines.

Still think Ron Moore does a great job and I am very curious about the next episodes!

In my honest opinion Ron Moore might be doing a good job in regard to scenery, costumes, language and the acting scenes (all of that can make for a very nice interesting show) but he is the one making the decisions regarding the major changes to the scenes and conversation. So it is he who has literally tied the hands of Sam & Cait in giving viewers what we are looking for. I personally think that some directors like many people in important positions destroy good things in their wake all for the need of power, money and recognition. I feel Ron is trying to make Diana's book into his own creation (to me disrespect for another person's work) it isn't just the minor or major rewrites or deletions of very important scenes from the books it can be something so very slight and maybe to some insignificant such as ......the ring....the original story made perfect sense and also had that special touch of Jamie's  caring forethought & budding romance (remember the inscription inside the ring). Ron decided to change the ring scene to a something reminiscent of he and his wife's life event so did the key turned into a ring. So crass in my opinion......anyway just one little member's thoughts...that's me.  Smile

Regards
Aikman Lass


Last edited by Aikman Lass on Tue 28 Apr - 3:11:26; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : forgot info & needed to clarify)

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Re: General Chat

Post by lochness on Sun 26 Apr - 17:06:27

I feel Ron is trying to make Diana's book into his own creation

Dear Aikman Lass

Appreciate your comments here. There is no question of that and its rather obvious. I agree I thought the ring being changed was a huge mistake from the book and what it could have mean't if left to the original story as to Jamie's caring and lets not forget Claire's very embarrassed and awkward response. Those are priceless moments lost forever to this production. This and a lot of other material that has been edited out are making this an entirely different story then what we had with the books. These changes are Ron's Ego at work and his "messing" with Diana's work a direct result. Not happy with perfection he creates something new of which this is. Unfortunately what we have left is a much flatter landscape to behold for us book readers and while I continue to have full confidence that we book readers will get through this and continue watching I am not so sure of the audience in general.Appreciate all your excel;lent input and observations!
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Re: General Chat

Post by soniaG on Sun 26 Apr - 17:46:01

lochness wrote:Dear Sonia
I have only been corresponding with you for a short while but in that period of time I have gotten glimpses of you through our interactions and your insights. How can you offend when you speak from the heart? There is no malice in those words and thoughts so deeply moving and yes heart felt. I choose to believe here that we can be vulnerable and open because we are among kindred spirits. No judgements just a warm embrace and a welcome home.

Thank you very much, dear Lochness! Wink

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Re: General Chat

Post by Aikman Lass on Tue 28 Apr - 7:24:42

ayrlassie wrote:Dear Aikman Lass,
Thank you so much for your post!

We learn so much from communicating with each other and I appreciate your situation and how eloquently you've shared it.
There's so much fear in our world today based on nothing more than what the media chooses to tell us and I refuse to take it at face value but where do we learn the truth?

Hi ayrlassie:  Very wise thinking to not believe everything media hands us.....sadly when it comes to many news reports they often have a lot of distorted or false information. Learning the truth is a hard one that I'm not sure how to answer. One of the big problems is education....we are taught so very little about other peoples, their countries & histories....so we lack a good base for understanding the true current of events happening today. With that we would maybe have a better insight into which reporters or news agencies are giving us the truth on the ground. For me I did a lot of reading, involved in multiculturalism so learned more through different nationalities I met & also have honest knowledgeable in-laws & friends where I have garnered lots more knowledge.    

Thank you again for sharing and perhaps you can enlighten us to what is really going on.

Interesting but the one evil you referred too is deep having many tentacles and Logo1960 might not like us going off the Outlander threads because this subject has no connection. I've already slipped (2-3 times??)  Embarassed  on threads so would hate to end up missing all the great dialogues on the forum.
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Aikman Lass

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Re: General Chat

Post by ronniedawes59 on Wed 29 Apr - 5:46:55

CdnScots wrote:I thought it was quite ingenious of the writers and Ronald D Moore to insert the line spoken by Claire to Geillis: "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country".

If Geillis had suspected of Claire's origins before this moment, it was confirmed to her at hearing that line. These were the last words of Nathan Hale, an soldier for the Continental Army during the American Revolution War, who was hanged in 1776 - which was still 30 years away. Geillis immediately recognized the famous quote, and knew for sure that Claire was also a time traveller like herself.

That line, or the one line where Geillis says to both Claire and Ned when they about to leave the room after the recess after Ned tells them, only one can be saved from the kindling.. paraphrasing.. Geillis.. going to a flipping barbecue.. Claire may not have known what a barbecue was in 1945 however, coupled with Geillis 1968 reference should have given her some clue as to Geillis as a time traveller herself Cool

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Re: General Chat

Post by Aikman Lass on Sat 2 May - 21:25:16

hello there Hi Members:
So much study  to do...not sure if anyone touched on the following:    Is it just my imagination or did Geilis drop her Scottish burr early on in the conversation... the scene where she talks about going to a "F...king" barbeque Question  I felt strongly that Geillis came across with American english rather than a Scots english Question Question   Didn't make a lot of sense to me because Geillis is still a Scottish person from the 1960s so would definitely have a Scottish accent which would become heavier when becoming emotional. But of course I know that's Ron's creation because Geillis never let her guard down in the original storyline.

Another thing that really bothered me was the scene at the stones when Jamie grabbed Claire & pulled her back. The initial build up to this scene was Claire telling Jamie that she came from 200 yrs. in the future. True, because Jamie loves Claire he says he believes her..... but even though he has some education in that time period & for many years to come the belief in things like witches, fairy people, Dames Blanches, omens, etc. was very prevalent. I think deep down he still needed proof other than Claire's say so. That proof came in the book when Jamie grabbed Claire and pulled her back & was terrified because he saw her "start to go somewhere" that is why he grabbed her (not because he wasn't ready)....my imagination in reading that scene was a vision of Claire's body starting to actually fade as if disappearing. To me this detail solidified Claire's story for Jamie....I think this was so necessary to the story but again...the we have the Ron factor in this mess.   Any one else have thoughts on this point:?:

Regards
Aikman Lass

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Re: General Chat

Post by lochness on Sun 3 May - 16:16:50

Another thing that really bothered me was the scene at the stones when Jamie grabbed Claire & pulled her back.

Dear Aikman Lass & All I have the most trouble with episode 111 and how it was done of all the episodes. I have seen all of the most recent ones now several times and have accepted them and even grown to like them which for me is saying a lot. This episode is one I am hoping that Ron and company can add some extra material with the DVD release that can fill in all the gaps it created around the stones.  I agree that it's only after Jamie actually "sees" Claire fading into the stones does he truly believe her story. However we also know from the book that this is a morning of absolute dread for him. He has made his decision to let Claire go and reached a troubled solution to the problem so that tells me he indeed does believe her but perhaps also maybe not in his "bones". Those doubts are released as Claire fades away. Yes he pulls her back because now he truly must deal with losing the love of his life and thats why he does it. Perhaps in a way he  also wasn't ready in his whole being for what that truly mean't.
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